Did a game today, had a weird play and then a coach arguing about appealing.

The play was on a caught fly ball, runner returning to tag the base and the throw goes to that base. Defensive team screams its a force (which it is) but the runner beat the ball to the base, therefore, she's safe.

Coaches want an appeal, but we won't grant it because it is a judgment call.

Between innings he comes to me and gives the famous line, "one umpire to another, you have to appeal that."

I explained to coach that he wasn't asking for anything we could appeal. I attempted to give examples of ball/strike, force out at first base, etc., as being similar situations that could not be appealed, but he kept coming up with excuses. I even tried to give him reasons my partner and I could have gotten together. Was he appealing for the umpire being blocked out, the sun was in his eyes, did he fell down, etc? (Basically, anything that he could have used to get us together to talk over the play--and all appealable situations--unlike the out call he didn't like) All he kept coming back to was that we must appeal whenever he asks.


So, my question is this: Would anyone have made the appeal? Would anyone "walk the coach through" what he could appeal? I mean, according to the coach, he's been umpiring forever and coaching forever (baseball) so he could give us a umpiring clinic. Or would anyone just tell him to be quiet, the play was over, and that was that? Just curious.



[Edited by FUBLUE on Dec 4th, 2004 at 09:00 PM]

Oh yeah...
 

Same coach wanted use to clearly define exactly was an "offer" was and exactly what we use to determine if the batter "checked" or "offered" at the pitch.

He said that a bunter who moves the bat AT ALL during a bunt attempt is a strike.

Also said that an overthrown ball that leaves the field of play is 1+1, so his runner should have gotten third on the ball that was thrown into the stands at first base.

And all his examples came from baseball.

And he lost the game.

A coach who thinks he knows the rules?

Imagine that!

No, as described I would have ignored his incoherent ramblings and gone on with the game.
Give him a primer at some other time, not during the game.
Tnough I have to admit, you were working with him as so many express that we should be doing.
Good try at handling things but sometimes beating your head against a wall is gonna hurt.

[Edited by scottk_61 on Dec 4th, 2004 at 10:05 PM]

FUBLUE,
It sounds kinda like coach may have just wanted the base ump to ask his partner for help, and that the coach used an unfortunate choice of words. :)
mick

I explained to coach that he wasn't asking for anything we could appeal.

Thst should have ended the discussion.

Also said that an overthrown ball that leaves the field of play is 1+1, so his runner should have gotten third on the ball that was thrown into the stands at first base.

Duh! "You got your two coach, first and second."

"one umpire to another, you have to appeal that."

Wow! And he still got to finish coaching the game. No wonder his team lost, they were playing by a different set of rules than the rest of us.

Not wanting to be too much of a stickler, but (bet you knew that was coming) this is not a "force" play. It is a live ball appeal, nothing more, nothing less.

Excellent Point, Mr. Mafia.

A lot of him staying in the game comes from:

1. I'm a really nice guy :)
2. They way he said it. He wasn't yelling, screaming, etc., he was talking to me, between innings usually, very calmly. No tirade, no screaming, no "you're wrong blue" "you suck blue" etc. As professional as he could be. That's why he stayed.
3. I pride myself in not throwing coaches out that a lot of umpires would. I have my triggers, my certain things you don't say to me.

FUBLUE forgot to tell you guys.......
 

.....while I did not have the pleasure of working with Mr. FUBLUE this past weekend.......that while he did not TOSS this particular coach he ALREADY had tossed one from his very first game of the day ! Guess that particular coach did say some of those magic words once or twice too often ! Just for my knowledge...this particular coach that had been an umpire....he wasn't from Ohio was he ?

Re: FUBLUE forgot to tell you guys.......
 

Not from Ohio. No sir. Center Grove.

No. I wouldn't have. I would have told him that he cannot question issues of judgement, just as you stated.

I wouldn't have spent too much time during the game giving him a clinic, though I might would have touched on acceptable questions he can ask to get an umpire to confer with his partner.

I would not have made the appeal as you discribed. I also don't think I would have taken as much time trying to explain the process to the coach. I have not had success trying to teach coaches things, which I obviously attribute to my lack of teaching skills. It couldn't be that so many pupils have learning disabilities.

I will not tell the coach to 'be quiet', but I will ask them specifically what they are wanting to appeal. They usually will say something like, "To see if your partner had a better look at it." I will say, "Coach, I was right on the play and saw exactly what happened."

However, if they want me to ask my partner if there was a pulled foot or something like that, then usually ask my partner, inquiring about the specific situation. "Bob, did you see a pulled foot?"