Okay, here's the situation.

Tie score, bottom of 7th, nobody out or 1 out.
(a) B1 receives a walk, or (b) B1 is hit by pitch.

Naturally, if everybody does what they're supposed to, R1 goes home, R2 goes to 3rd, R3 goes to 2nd, and B1 goes to first. They all touch their bases and the game is over.

Most of us know that if there were 2 out and a runner did not touch their base, and the defense made a proper appeal, the run would not score.

HOWEVER,
What happens if R3 doesn't touch 2nd and instead goes to join the celebration and the defense makes a proper appeal? I know if B1 hit the ball, the run scored by R1 as a preceeding runner would count. (I differentiate between situations (a) and (b) because a walk is a live ball situation and a HBP is a dead ball situation.) Does the run count, or, because the forced movement of R1 and R2 is eliminated due to the successful appeal, do we have one more out with B1 at 1st, R1 at 3rd, and R2 at second?

A little input here? I ran into this situation today, but fortunately, the defense didn't appeal.

Lee

[Edited by Leecedar on Dec 4th, 2004 at 06:30 PM]

Speaking ASA

The only person you can rule out on a proper appeal is the runner who failed to touch the next base. That means that R3 is the only out which means the inning is not over, so all runs count.

And, FYI, an umpire cannot honor an appeal until all baserunning tasks are completed or any advancement by runners entitled to such are obviously completed.

Irish, I wasn't talking about making two outs on the play, but because I didn't specify none or one out, I was suggesting that an out was assessed against R3, and that R2 and R1 return to their respective bases.

However, that being clarified, your statement about all baserunning tasks being completed makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

Lee

[Edited by Leecedar on Dec 5th, 2004 at 08:13 AM]

Didn't say you did.

Quote:

but because I didn't specify none or one out,

Uh, you might want to check the top of original post where it stated Tie score, bottom of 7th, nobody out or 1 out.

Quote:

I was suggesting that an out was assessed against R3, and that R2 and R1 return to their respective bases.

The only time the result of an appeal play can take a run off the board is if that appeal involved the 3rd or 4th out of an inning.

This is why I mentioned that since only R3 can be declared out which would bring us to 1 or 2 outs, the run would count. As far as putting runners back, that cannot happen because when a BR is awarded 1B, all runners forced at that time are entitled to advance one base without liability of being put out.

As an umpire on this play, I may not even recognize the appeal as there is no affect on the game. I would just blow-off the coach, but explain it to him there he can have the out, but the game is still over.

ARRRGH! I hate our language!

Okay, what I MEANT to say was that I didn't specify whether there was no out (which would then turn to one out) or one out (which would then turn to two outs.)

Harumph!

What if ... Girl is hit by pitch (dead ball) Runner going toward second stops early and goes in dugout. I would want the girl called out and return the runners to 3rd. and 2nd because they were not forced to advance. "coach" Brian

Well, you could want that, but you wouldn't (shouldn't) get it. The runners were forced to advance on the HBP; until the appeal, they advanced legally, and a successful appeal on a missed base wouldn't alter their legal advance (unless the appeal was the 3rd out on a force).