The following has made it out of committee:

Adding the pitcher and catcher to those involved in the IFR.

Men's Major SP home runs change to 12 from 15

When the time limit is in play, the clock begins at the first pitch

**The batter in SP will assume a 1-1 count when entering the batter's box and will receive a courtesy foul.

This was a split vote by the committees and will result in a floor fight. Umpires and SP rule committe approved. All others rejected the proposals.

Women's Open and Co-ed Major divisions need not run the bases on an out of the park home run

Concerning SP stealing: Delete 8.4.G 1 & 2. Replace with:

The ball remains alive until the pitcher has possession of the ball in the infield and all play is over. Runners not advancing return to the last base legally touched.

This allows for any runner to advance prior to the pitcher receiving the ball in the infield.

Womens Open SP Division will now allow stealing

Change in obstruction ruling: An obstructed runner who attains the base to which they were protected will be in jeopardy should they leave that base when a subsequents play is made on another runner.

The LBR will be in effect when the pitcher has possession of the ball within the circles for:

1 all runners when the ball is live;
2 the batter-runner who touches first base.

The LBR will be in effect when the pitcher has possession of the ball within the circles for: 1 all runners when the ball is live;


Wow, we just changed that maybe a couple years ago, to not be in effect until the B-R reaches 1B. What is the rationale for a change back?

WMB

Thanks Mike.

I personally like the addition to the LBR.

(So it probably won't pass)

Apparently, someone didn't like the games the coaches had the runners playing while waiting for the BR to reach 1B

Heaven forbid we have softball players playing GAMES! :D (I am neutral on this change, except that the change will probably make enforcement easier, esp with single man games.)

Dakota,

How does having a rule go into effect for different players at different times make enforcement easier?

Goes into effect for everyone but the BR when the ball is in the circle. Goes into effect for BR when ball is in the circle and she reaches first base.

Kevin

Please explain how the RCR (aka LBR) can apply to a BR who has not reached first base. There is no choice of direction, so is it only if the BR stops to decoy the fielders?

Clearly it can not be applied prior to the BR reaching first, but with this revision it may be applied to any other baserunners prior to the BR reaching first.

A slow BR draws a walk and jogs to first. F2 quickly returns the ball to F1 in the circle. R1 at third is now compelled to return to third or head home, but the BR still hasn't reached first.
It changes how the game is played. Now instead of a six step lead toward home when the BR is rounding first and headed for second, R1 has her momentum heading back toward third, if she isn't there already.

It isn't a big deal and everyone plays by the same rules, but it does change the game.

No, it doesn't change the game. It just takes the game back to where it was last year.

BTW, have you ever noticed that at the upper levels they don't need to play these silly chicken **** games on the bases? How can these teams possibly win?

What changes the game from the manner in which it should be played is the coaching of these children to win at all costs.

Mike,
Backwards is a change. Just because the rule flip flops and reverts to how it once was doesn't mean that it is not a change.
I'm not arguing that this is a good or bad thing - it just is.
How is it chicken **** if it is within the rules?
Again I'm not arguing for or against the change. Coaches must coach within the rules, whatever they may be.
Maybe I'm just arguing for the sake of the argument - sorry.
Kevin

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung...smiley-035.gif

And finally the nail has been hit on the head.

It is not backwards, it is a correction of an ill-conceived change. Mistakes get made in all aspects of life, including softball.

A player can slide into a base and sweep the legs of a fielder standing on or near the base. It is legal, but the defense's coach will be the first in the umpire's face telling him how CS that act was.

There is no value to the games people play on the bases. It is more likely that a catcher will throw the ball away and runners advance than it is that they will pick-off a runner.

New Rules
 

Seem like some good changes. I hope the 1-1 count passes for SP it does speed up the game and glad to see they changed the confusing base stealing rule that was in place.

My only beef would be the clock starting on the 1st pitch of the game. Are they talking 1st warm-up I can live with that BUT if they are talking 1st actual pitch that doesnt seem right in my opinion. Its hard enough now getting a game going with coaches never ready at pre-game, then wanting that 5 min. speech to the team before they send em out on the ballfield and then the team gathering before a game starts. Let's get em on the field and start play.

JMOs

Don

Re: New Rules
 

I agree, but once again, this is not a new rule. I tried to get it changed after it mysteriously disappeared from the rule book last year.

Obviously, the staff prefers a standard definitive start time.

Mike,

Can you remind Bob Savoie about the discussion we had at the regional meeting regarding the wear of the ASA cap by umpires?

Thanks,
Serg

I have to say, even at the Gold level (18 Gold to be exact)I saw this CS play being used.
Sadly one team fell for it.

But you are decidedly correct with the idea that is prevelant.............win at all costs.

Have a good one.

So could I please get an explaination on the stealing rule. There was so much confusion about it here during our state tournaments that pretty much all of the teams just agreed not to steal.

What we were told was that if a player tried to steal, and the pitcher got the ball back before they could get to the base, they had to return to the base the were stealing from. Is that different now? If not, what is the reasoning behind that, pretty much defeats the whole purpose of trying to steal if all you have to do is flip it to the pitcher to make them go back.

I don't know who instructed you on this matter, but they obviously did not pay attention to the NUS.

I've been hearing about the confusion the rule caused, but at the Armed Forces Championship, the umpires did not need to send any runners back because the players knew and understood the rules so well, they enforced it without the umpires even opening their mouth.

The rule NEVER stopped runners proceding to the next base unless one of multiple runners were not proceding when the catcher released the ball and the pitcher caught it near the pitcher's plate.

Now, any runner may steal at any time once the pitch has passed the front edge of the plate and has not touched the plate or the batter. They are not confined or restricted by the actions, or lack of, of any other runner.

The ball will not be declared dead until the pitcher has the ball in his/her possession in the infield and all obviously play is completed.

ASA Rule Changes Approved:
 

Adding the pitcher and catcher to those involved in the IFR.

Men's Major SP home runs change to 12 from 15

When the time limit is in play, the clock begins at the first pitch.

Multiple-barrel bat (Worth) is not approved for ASA play at this point in time. (Nor will be until next year at the earliest, if at all)

JO FP requires all batting helmets include a securely attached/fastened NOCSAE approved face mask/guard. OLD FACE MASK/GUARD WHICH DO NOT HAVE A NOCSAE STAMP ARE NOT GRANDFATHERED AND ARE NOT APPROVED FOR ASA CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY.

HR for Major SP is now twelve (12)

Men's Senior play now uses the ITB after 7 complete innings

16" SP now permits a pick-off play after a legal or illegal pitch

Women's Open and Co-ed Major divisions need not run the bases on an out of the park home run

Concerning SP stealing: Delete 8.4.G 1 & 2. Replace with:

The ball remains alive until the pitcher has possession of the ball in the infield and all play is over. Runners not advancing return to the last base legally touched.

This allows for any runner to advance prior to the pitcher receiving the ball in the infield.

Womens Open SP Division will now allow stealing

Change in obstruction ruling: An obstructed runner who attains the base to which they were protected will be in jeopardy should they leave that base when a subsequents play is made on another runner.

In FP & SP where stealing is allowed, a pitched ball which passes through or lodges in the fence will be a dead ball and all runners are awarded one base from the time of the pitch. The BR will only be awarded 1st base if ball four

"In FP & SP where stealing is allowed, a pitched ball which passes through or lodges in the fence will be a dead ball and all runners are awarded one base from the time of the pitch. The BR will only be awarded 1st base if ball four"

How is this a change? The text of this rule and penalty hasn't changed in 30 or 40 years. Is this simply an editorial revision to add this rule to SP where stealing is allowed?

WMB

I don't know for sure, but I have heard that this was done to bolster the ruling that already existed.
There were some notable misapplications of this situation lately.
More than likely a clarrification.

The present rule is for FP Only. Once the gurus finish with it, the rule will probably read: "When a pitched ball lodges in or goes under, over or through the backstop".

And yes, it was changed to accommodate SP's stealing.

Just Received
 

Just received a email that contains the ASA release showing the 2005 rules. I don't see anything final about the timing of the LBR. Did this get out of committee or was it only a clearification. You know about the fact that we don't have to wait for the batter-runner to reach first base when judging the LBR against current base runners ?

Re: Just Received
 

If someone who has received this email from ASA would forward it to me, I will post in on Softball Umpires.

Re: Just Received
 

Haven't been paying attention, have you?

The proposed change was withdrawn. Please don't ask why as there are at least two full threads on the subject.

Re: Just Received
 

Bandit,

If you are referring to the fact that the LBR does not
go into effect until BR either touches 1B or has been
declared out, it is in this year's book.

8-7T.

Need Address
 

Dakota, Need your e-mail address. [email protected]

This What I Received
 

2005 Playing Rule Changes
(Effective January 1, 2005)

Rule #1 – The Definitions

Rule #1 – Infield Fly A fair fly ball . . . which can be caught by an infielder, pitcher or catcher with ordinary effort . . .
Comment: Wording of previous definition was vague concerning the pitcher and catcher.

Rule #3 – Equipment

Rule #3 – Section 1, F SURFACE. The official bat shall be smooth with a maximum surface roughness of 250 micro-inches. It shall be free of burr and visible cracks and shall not have exposed rivets, pins, rough or sharp edges or any form of exterior fastener that would present a hazard.
Comment: Provides a process of measuring the surface roughness of a bat submitted for approval under the ASA 2004 Performance Standard.

Rule #3, Section 1, G BARREL END. If not constructed of wood and not made of one-piece construction with the barrel end closed, the barrel end shall have a rubber or vinyl plastic or other approved material insert or end cap at the large end of the bat. The insert or end cap shall be firmly secured and permanently affixed so that it cannot be removed by anyone other than the manufacturer without damaging or destroying the end cap.
Comment: Current rule applied only to metal bats. This rule change applies to the rule to all non-wood bats, including composite bats.

Rule #3, Section 1, K NEW CONSTRUCTION. The official bat shall be one-piece construction or a multi-piece permanently assembled bat. NOT APPROVED: two-piece bats, multiple piece bats, bats not sold as a single product are not approved, and bats where at least one portion of the bat is intended to be removable by a player from another portion of the bat.
Comment: Two-piece bats are being developed by manufacturers so that there is increased access to the inside of the bat where bat doctors can alter the bat to make it exceed the ASA 2004 Bat Performance Standard.

Rule #3, Section 2, B WARM-UP BAT. The warm-up bat shall comply with the safety grip and safety knob requirements of the official bat (See Rule 3, Sec 1 H & I).
Comment: Safety grip and safety knob requirements should be the same for all bats.


Rule #3, Section 5, E HELMETS. …… All Junior Olympic Fast Pitch batting helmets shall be equipped with a securely attached NOCSAE approved face mask guard.
Comment: To insure the new face mask/guard is permanently attached.

Rule 3, Section 5, D FACE MASKS/FACE GUARDS. Any defensive player or offensive player can wear an approved plastic face mask/guard. Face masks/guards that are cracked or deformed, or if padding is deteriorated or is missing, are prohibited from use. Fast pitch catchers cannot wear the plastic face mask/guard. Approved are the Game Face and Sports-Guard face masks. EFFECTIVE 2005. All Junior Olympic FAST PITCH batting helmets shall be equipped with a NOCSAE approved face mask/guard.

Rule #5 – The Game

Rule #5, Section 8 A 1 HOME RUN RULE . Change from 15 home runs to 12.
Comment: In Men’s Major SP Championships, no team ever reached the 12 home run limit. With the adjusting of the bats and balls, is needed to be competitive.

Rule #5, Section 10 TIME LIMIT RULE. When the time limit is in effect, the time limit begins with the first pitch.
Comment: Now that time limits have been authorized for all region/area play (ASA Code 510 O), there should be a definitive start time.

Rule #5, Section 11 C NEW MEN’S SENIOR SLOW PITCH ONLY. Use the international tie breaker rule after completion of seven (7) innings.
Comment: To conform with other senior organizations.

Rule #6 – Pitching Regulations (16” Slow Pitch)

Rule #6, Section 7 Delete “No pick off can be made.”
Comment: 16” Slow Pitch teams at the National Championship requested this change.

Rule #8 – Batter – Runner and Runner

Rule #8, Section 3 I Add to exception: Women’s Open and Coed Major.
Comment: To allow the Women’s Open and Coed Major division to not run the bases on home runs.

Rule #8, Section 4 G Men’s and Women’s Open Slow Pitch Only. Deletes #1 and #2 and replace with …. The ball remains alive until the pitcher has possession of the ball in the infield and all immediate play has been completed. Runners not advancing return to the last base legally touched.
Comment: Eliminate some confusion of when the runners can leave and return to the base. Also, eliminates any judgment as to what the vicinity of the pitching plate is. Should be treated the same as when a base hit is returned to the pitcher in the infield. If no runners are attempting to advance the umpire can call time to stop play. Adding stealing to the upper division of Women’s Slow Pitch will increase participation. It will be a perfect transition between fast pitch and slow pitch.

Rule #8, Section 5 B 1 1. An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where obstructed unless properly appealed for:
NEW a) when an obstructed runner, after the obstruction, safely obtains the base they would have been awarded, in the umpire’s judgment, had there been no obstruction and there is a subsequent play on a different runner, the obstructed runner is no longer protected between the bases where they were obstructed and may be put out,
b. when properly appealed for missing a base,
c. when properly appealed for leaving a base before a fly ball was first touched
d. when committing an act of interference, or
e. when passing another runner.
Comment: This change maintains an offense/defense balance that eliminates confusion on an obstruction play between bases.

Rule #8, Section 5 C NEW Fast Pitch, Slow Pitch with Stealing (Men’s and Women’s Open Slow Pitch.) When a pitched ball that remains alive lodges or goes under or over or through the backstop.
EFFECT: The ball is dead and all runners are awarded one base only. The batter is awarded first base only on the fourth ball.
Comment: Makes all games consistent and better understanding by players and umpires.

Thanks Bandit.

I also agree it is hard enough to get the game started on time without waiting until the first real pitch to start the clock.. since there is already a time limit on the warm up period (i.e 3 pitches or one minute in SP) I would much rather see the time limit start when the home team takes the feild. But at least there would be a difinitve rule. I don't know if you have input in this but I would also like to see something about when the clock should STOP. Injuries? Lenghty official time outs such as batting out of order and consulting the scorebooks.. broken base.. moose on the feild (Hey, I am in Alaska! I had it happen last season! Trust me, you do NOT argue with a moose!) I have always stoped the clock in these situations but the only thing I can point to in the book for doing so is "Rule 10".

Looking forward to the 2005 Season!!

Ernie

"you do not argue with a moose"

Let the coaches do it, they are the "argue experts"!

Hell, no, you don't argue with the moose. You go to the coach who has been the most troublesome and say, "Coach, is that your moose out there?"

Before he gets a chance to respond, you continue, "Coach, that moose is ejected and if you don't have it off the field in two minutes, I'm forfeiting this game!"

#1, make sure you know this guy/gal and are confident they have a sense of humor.

#2, it will take a second to sink in, so make sure you stand there with a constant grin on your face and as soon as s/he begins to erupt, make sure they understand that you are just kidding and you are not going to forfeit the game.
Of course, you follow-up with that you at least want him to get it into the dugout.

Okay, so you may be pushing it a bit there. Now a couple of things may happen at this point. Either the coach will laugh with you, or you can expect to spend the rest of your season working the worst softball in the world.

BTW, if the opposing coach comes over and demands the forfeit you mentioned, toss 'em! They are too damn stupid to be part of any game where a moose can enter the field of play!

That's cooool Mike

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/CartMoose.gif

Although I understand there are lots of "moose" involved
in the SP game. LOL