Thought I would get your reactions to this.
Sophomore pitcher at an SEC university will occasionally throw a pitch from behind her back, usually for strike three. She has been doing this from her high school days. Easy to miss if your not watching her carefully; velocity and accuracy are equal to her normal delivery.
Obviously the coach allows her do do it. I was told it was judged by the SEC as a legal pitch. She does this in a game situation, not in an exhibition.
Personally, I think it's a bit unprofessional and an attempt to show up a batter. However, it's quite a feat to make it as accurately and quickly as she does.
Only question I have is about an attempt to deceive the batter by altering her release point.

Only call to make......Illegal pitch

Even with the heavy NFCA influence in the rules, I don't believe a pitch behind the back would ever become legal.

But, now that I said that, watch them prove me wrong! ;)

Actually the NCAA interpreter has ruled this to be a legal pitch.

Legal but dumb
 

This is a legal pitch in the NCAA, why I have no idea but....
When the NCAA decided to rule this legal, they initially claimed that they had the support of ASA for the ruling,
Can you guess how long it took Merle and Henry to refute that claim?

I can guaraantee you that kind of pitch violates every intent of pitching rules.

If she is releasing the ball from behind her back, she is violating ASA Rule 6-3-F.

Illegal pitch.

I'm not an NCAA umpire, but by my naive reading of the NCAA book, it also violates NCAA Rule 10-6-d.

The NCAA book can be found in the Links section of the Softball Umpires web site - shameless plug - and with just a few more hits, we'll make up that 69143 point deficit and become the #1 site on eteamz. We're up to 169 points now! :D

I'm sure it violates Fed's book, too. How did she ever get this pitch perfected?

This is something she has been doing for a few years. She's from my geographic area and I know her Dad brought her along as a pitcher. She was no.1 HS pitcher in MS. 2 years ago. I would have to assume her Dad started this. I know her HS coach never condoned it.
She pitches for Miss State. I find it hard to believe that her current coach (Jay Miller) allows it but I suppose since the SEC didn't outlaw it, he thinks it's OK.

ISF Rules (the ones used in the Olympics),

Rule 6, Sec.3 has nothing that prohibits this kind of pitch.

Eddie Feigner's legacy, I guess.



<i>Sec. 3. LEGAL DELIVERY.
a. The pitcher must not make any motion to pitch without immediately delivering the ball to the batter.
b. The pitcher must not use a pitching motion in which, after having the ball in both hands in the pitching position, he removes one hand from the ball, takes a backward and forward swing, and returns the ball to both hands in front of the body.
c. The pitcher must not use a windup in which there is a stop, or reversal, of the forward motion.
d. The pitcher must not make two revolutions of the arm on the windmill pitch. However, he may drop his arm to the side and to the rear before starting the windmill motion. This allows the arm to pass the hip twice.
e. The delivery must be an underhanded motion, with the hand below the hip and the wrist not farther from the body than the elbow.
f. The release of the ball and follow through of the hand and wrist must be forward and past the straight line of the body.
g. Both feet must remain in contact with the pitching plate at all times prior to the forward step.
h. In the act of delivering the ball, the pitcher must take one step simultaneous with the release of the ball. The step must be forward toward the batter and within the 61.0cm (24 in) length of the pitcher's plate.

NOTE: It is not a step if the pitcher slides his foot across the pitcher's plate, provided contact is maintained with the plate. Lifting the pivot foot off the pitcher's plate and returning it to the plate, creating a rocking motion, is an illegal act.

i. The pivot foot may remain in contact with, or may push off and drag away from, the pitcher's plate prior to the stepping (non-pivot) foot touching the ground, provided the pivot foot remains in contact with the ground.
j. Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate before the stepping (non-pivot) foot has left the plate is considered a “crow hop” and is illegal.
k. The pitcher must not continue to wind up after releasing the ball.
l. The pitcher shall not deliberately drop, roll or bounce the ball in order to prevent the batter from hitting it.
m. The pitcher has 20 seconds to release the next pitch after receiving the ball, or after the umpire indicates, "Play Ball."

NOTE: An additional ball is awarded the batter.</i>

Shmuel

After this thread was started, I had a HS pitcher do something I had never seen before.

Pitcher would deliver the ball UNDER her NP leg! The first time she did it I had to think "did I see what I think I saw"?, and "is it legal"? I was FU, and the plate guy with 35+ yrs of experience seemed to be caught off guard. On the 2nd pitch under the leg, he called it illegal due to the leg landing outside the 24" lane. I don't think she landed outside the lane, and I have been unable to find any ruling to make it illegal.

Pitches weren't accurate, but they sure looked funky to the batter.

This gal was on a team in the AFA 18U Nationals a few years ago.
After much discussion by all the "to be's" they decided it was also
legal. A very good friend of mine had them in a conference game
this year, called the pitch illegal, and was handed a letter from from
someone within the NCAA chain stated that the pitch was legal. So guess
it will be a hot topic again. She does not use it much, but when thrown
it was usually for a strike. Seems like a violation of 6.3f

To me, it would seem difficult for a pitcher to meet this qualification if they were pitching behind their back, or, for that matter, under their leg. Guess I would have to see it happen to be sure...

"past the straight line of the body."

I've always felt this is the most ambiguous statement in the entire rules book. I don't think that any umpire has a clue what the "straight line of the body" is; I suspect most of us just go right past this sentence.

Is this a vertical line? If it is straight, then it can't be bent. So the pitcher's body is straight? Can't be bent anywhere? Does it have to be vertical? Can she be leaning forward? Or backwards?

Or is it a vertical plane? Then in what point of the compass can the plane be pointed? Are the hips to be pointed at 1st and 3rd? Or can the hips be pointed at home and 2nd and the release passes in front of the body?

OK, maybe it is a horizontal line. Maybe it is a line directly from the middle of the pitcher to the middle of the plate. So if the ball was released in a sidearm motion, it was have a different angle to the plate than the "straight line" of the body? But we already have rules to prevent sidearm pitching, so this would be redundant.

If it is a straight line from the middle of the pitcher to the plate, then why can't the pitcher throw behind the back. What is the difference between the line of a R-H pitcher throwing behind the back and the line of a L-H pitcher throwing normal?

Use your imagination and tell me what possible pitching motion would violate the "straight line" rule?

WMB

It means, simply, in front of the body (he said, confidently). http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung...smiley-017.gif

e. The delivery must be an underhanded motion, with the hand below the hip and the wrist not farther from the body than the elbow.

Seems to me that the requirement to keep the hand below the hip would be the more difficult, and most likely not happening, task.

If the pitcher takes her position on the pitcher's plate with her shoulders in line with first and third, the "straight line of the body" would be that imaginary plane that the front of her body would create. If one is pitching behind their back, it would seem unlikely that the release and follow through would allow her to go forward through this plane, hence a violation of the rule.

RE:
 

I have seen this girl in action in both High School (Her team took out my daughters team 2 years ago for the state championship) and college and she uses it as her changeup. It freezes the batters and is quite impressive looking. They did not allow it when she played High School but in college I have seen her use it 3 or 4 times a game in multiple games and is never called illegal. I think whenever she pitches they tell the umps beforehand so they will be ready for it.

Caveat: I have not seen this pitch, so I am going only by the written description here.

Whoever in the NCAA ruled this pitch legal is a weenie.

It is clearly illegal.

Just because the rule book does not explicitly say "no behind the back pitches" doesn't mean it is not illegal. It is. JMO.

As I think we all know, legal is not the same as "not called". We have frequently determined that the majority of illegal pitches are not called, let alone those not specifically defined in the books. Pretty much the same thing for interpretations by local or tournament interpreters and UIC.

Skahboi: If the pitcher takes her position on the pitcher's plate with her shoulders in line with first and third, the "straight line of the body" would be that imaginary plane that the front of her body would create. If one is pitching behind their back, it would seem unlikely that the release and follow through would allow her to go forward through this plane, hence a violation of the rule.

Starting position must be with shoulders in line with 1st/3rd. But if you are suggesting that the pitcher must finish that way; that the release of the ball and the follow through of the arm will go "through" that plane between 1st/3d, than you've just made most female pitchers illegal. With a typical female pitcher the wrist snap precedes the hip closing. Typically a male pitcher will close his hips before the wrist snap. Your plane with the female may be pointing at SS or even 2B. Thus the release and follow through may be parallel to the "plane."

No offense intended, Scott, but that doesn't work, and further proves my original point that most of us (myself included) "don't have a clue what the straight line of the body is."

BTW - just to muddy the waters a bit. The "straight line of the body" has been in the ASA book for nearly 60 years. The NFHS book is obviously newer. NFHS changed one word - "straight" to "vertical." They probably thought that making it known to be a vertical line would make it easier to understand. Hah! That didn't work either!

Personally I believe it is an outdated rule that is no longer valid and violations should not be called. I think the original rules makers wanted pitchers to be square to the plate (hips/shoulders in line with 1st/3rd as Scott noted above) when they released the ball. They did not want the pitcher to stride out and pitch in the full open position (belt buckle towards 3B). They said, "at no time in the forward swing shall the arm cross the front of the body." Also at that time a "snap or jerky release of the ball at the hip" was prohibited.

A few years later those were dropped and the "straight line" was introduced. Required now was a "follow through of the hand and wrist past the straight line of the body before the ball is released." So they wanted that hand out in front of the body before releasing the ball.

Since 1970 the rule has been as it is today: the release of the ball and the follow through of the hand and the wrist must be forward past the straight line of the body. Taken out of it's historical context, the rule no longer describes its true intent and is very ambiguous. Not only has the rule evolved, but also pitching has evolved significantly from the 1930's and any pitcher that snaps her wrist prior to closing the hips would be illegal under the original intent of this rule. Well, you can't call IP for every pitch on every pitcher, so this rule is no longer valid and should be junked.

And now you know theeeeeeee rest of the story!

WMB