ASA rules, 14U. Fall ball.

One team from a metro-area suburb with a "wealthy" reputation. The other team from a small town well away (~80 miles) from the metro.

Small town team comes to bat. Catcher, in her crouch waiting on the pitcher to begin, starts singing "Old McDonald Had a Farm."

My question - what would you do if

a) It is between pitches, or
b) It is after the pitcher has started her windup.

I'll tell you later what I did.

Hum a few bars with her?

Recommend some animals?

Nothing! Unless you feel that it is intimidating the batter.

Perhaps she was singing about you; do you have a resemblance to any particular barnyard animal?

I am going to tell her in no uncertain terms, that her singing could be interpreted as taunting and that I do not want to hear her singing except "Take me out to the ball game" during the 7th inning stretch.

MTD, Sr.

YU.P.
 

Good call, Mark T. !
mick

"that her singing could be interpreted as taunting"

TAUNTING? I thought it was funny! Have we gotten so P.C. that kids can't have any fun anymore?

WMB

Are we here to play softball or sing songs? How could singing a song by the catcher be anything but distractive to the batter?

I have had the same thing happen several times over the years. I just ask her to stop, as the only reason for doing this is to cause a distraction. Never had a problem for asking the catcher to stop because the coach is usually in on it.

The suburban semi-sophisticate putting down the small town chick from the sticks does not have to happen.
...Very unsporting and very unecessary.
Just won't happen at my table. :cool:
mick

I would just tell the catcher no more singing, along with a word to the coach. Now if the whole team wants to sing, just call time and sing along! (Just kidding of course!)

I've never had singing but I have let catchers say "nursery rhymes", I guess that is long before I was Blue I was a catcher that never shut up. As long as ASA Rule 10 Section 9 subsection A is not violated I let them have fun.

Tennis and Golf are for quiet time while Football, Basketball, Baseball and Softball are for enthusiam and excitment without disparaging or insulting words, songs or rhymes.

I just want to play devil's advocate. So, you are saying that the defensive team cannot say "hey, batter, batter swing" because it is distractive???

I say it's taunting and the players are there to play softball. I live in the same state that Dakota lives in.

At 14U, I'd say the catcher is singing to distract the batter. I'd say "Sorry catch, but your singing is distracting me, so please stop." Did that, it worked for me!

Singing http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung...smiley-004.gif

Gotta agree with distracting act....Stop or Leave...

And that is not North or South Dakota.

Forgot to answer your questions, Tom,

a) Have a quiet word with Catch before the pitch.
b) Have a quiet word with Catch after the pitch.
mick

Right... it's Dakota County (MN).

On this situation, the reason I asked about the a) and b) is because I had both. Given the teams involved (and the age level) I'm certain it was intended as taunting.

The catcher sang to the first batter as the pitcher was getting ready for the first pitch of the game. I didn't do anything about that one - it's fall ball and I was going to let it go if it happened only once.

The next batter, though, she started singing just as the pitcher began her windup. That made it easy. I called time to brush the plate. While brushing, I looked the catcher right in the eye and told her no more singing during the pitch. I asked her if she understood. She said yes.

At the half inning, I told the coach that I had warned his catcher about singing during the pitch, what song she was singing, that I considered it to be taunting, and there had better not be a repeat.

The only thing I might have done differently is issue the warning on the first occurance, but I still think that might have been just a bit hair-triggered.

Oooops!
 

I didn't read it very well. I thought it was the farm team that was singing Old MacDonald.

What was going on was definitely taunting.

I think I might have replied with a few words from Hall and Oates "Rich Girl."

You're a rich girl. And you're not gonna play in this game. Sing another bar and you'll be ejected. Another bar and you'll be ejected today.

:D

Warning and subsequent ejection.

You could let the catcher know that if she continues her singing, you'll be singing "Another One Bites The Dust" as she's ejected from the game.

Michael

I, as Down Town, didn't catch the gist at first, but after reading mick's second post I caught the meaning of the catchers song. At any age level that would not be acceptable.

I would probably have told miss cacther from "Metroville", Young lady I was born and raised in "Farmville" are you trying to make fun of me also? I would imagine that would put a stop to the taunting.

I had a 10U BB tourney this Sunday, one dugout started with the "pitchers got a wedgie" chant. I usually don't stop that unles it is noticeably bothering the pitcher, or the other coaches request it to be stopped. The first base coach told his bench loud and sternly, "guys if you can't cheer FOR your team, don't cheer at all!" I removed my mask, came from behind the plate, pointed at the coach and said "thank you coach, good job". A smooth game up until that point became much smoother, and all involved had fun.

The wedgie?

And how do you fix a wedgie for someone else?

That's a new chant that I haven't heard! Well of course she does. How do you think she is able to throw so hard? :D

Okay, I'll chime in.

Unless there is an inflection in the voice at a time or changing the lyrics which may be distractive toward the batter, or if it is loud enough for others to hear, it's nothing.

Hell, I've been known to break out in Jingle Bells on some pretty hot days.

If a batter tugs at their crotch when getting set and the catcher says that is a distraction to her, are you going to tell the batter they can no longer do that? If someone complains that a coach referred to a youth player as "girlfriend" (as in "you go, girlfriend" and I have witnessed this), are you going to tell the coach what they can say and cannot say?

Give me a break and don't tell me that they are "only young girls". That's one of the reasons you let them have fun, not be overofficious or politically correct. If a coach has to worry about something so trivial to win a game, maybe he, and his players, are in over their head.

I'd have more of an issue with
some of the "cheers/chants" that some of
the high school girls give out when opposing
batters are in the box--------
I'm guessing they learn these at "softball camp"
or wherever and although it is not blatent unsportsmanlike
behavior-- it can "border" on it !!

Thank you, Mike,

I think we all know when chants, songs, rhymes and just plain talking is malicious or pinpointed at the time of the swing or release of the ball in an attempt to cause a specific distraction. Those infrac tions should be stopped.

When done in fun to break concentration or focus I find it part ot the game. As I posted previously I had a catcher reciting nursery rhymes in cluding Mary had a Little Lamb, Humpty Dumpty, Jack and Jill and many more. This was constant and started prior to the batter stepping into the box and ended after the batter left. The catcher laughed and giggled and had fun messing with the batter's mind.

I had fun watching her have fun and "getting the goat" of adult coaches that could not complain about anything execpt "my players can not concentrate". I thought it was creative and well within the rules. I will still allow theae things as long as they are not "timed distractions" or malicious in nature. Yes, the age level is part of the consideration.

Why ? Get over it....
 

As long as the catcher does not use names, direct player #'s, or direct references to the pareticular batter during the swing I have no problem with them singing or repeating rymes. Is it bothering the batter or the umpire more when you start worring about what the catcher is saying or doing?

I have to ask...if the fans sit outside the fence and start singing do you have them stop too?

Is their any direct rule reference that can an umpire can fall back on that prohibits singing by any defensive player?

You guys are way off the mark, IMO.

I've called games with chatty catchers. I've had batters and catcher, batter and the opposing bench, etc., engage in all kinds of banter, etc. It doesn't bother me; I don't try to stop it, unless it crosses the line of clearly trying to obstruct the batter, or clearly taunting (making disparaging remarks to or about the opposing players). Notice making disparaging or insulting remarks about an opposing player is specified as USC.

Taunting is unsportsmanlike. There is no doubt in my mind that is what was happening. That she did it also during the pitch made the call easy.

What rules were violated? Rule 6-5B and Rule 10-9A.

So, you eject the player from the game? If you are going to cite those rules, you better as that is the effect given in the body of the rule.

No warnings, no second chances, just an ejection. The only warnings offered are to a coach or manager, but the player is to be promptly ejected.

Was I prepared to eject the player? Absolutely.

I did not invoke the rule, but warned the player and the coach about the rule.

I cited the rules, above, in response to the question...I also pointed out that is not the standard of the rule.

Thanks for your response, Mike. I was beginning to think I was an island wondering what the big issue was about. In my mind, singing nursery rhymes and childrens' songs is no reason for an issue, let alone an ejection. The relationship between the rural team and the wealthy team, while singing "Old McDonald" is BS to me. Suppose it was a recitation of "Jack and Jill"? Is that better because there isn't an urban versus rural flavor?

How about "You are my sunshine, my only sunshine...."???

Well, that's definitely over-officious
 

Of course this was sarcasm on your part, Mike.

If I felt that this "Old MacDonald" was a deliberate act of taunting, I would do something about it to keep the peace. As you well know, those subtle, unsportsman-like, within the rules, kind of actions can lead to volatile responses that are well beyond the rules.

What if the words to her song were "your Moma's a piece of crap, and you are too, and my pitcher's gonna shove this ball up your rosy red..."

You tell the catcher to stop. And she says "WHAT? I'm just singing a song. There's no rule about singing is there?"

Do you now turn to the batter and say, "Suck it up. That's part of the game."

Maybe in the major leagues but not in any game I work. In fact if I got the above response I might well reply with "Coach, I need a sub for your catcher because I just ejected her. If the coach didn't want to respect my decision, I would likely eject him too.

Of course this is a HTBT situation... and I wasn't. One can't judge intent and severity/effect without being present.

What do you do if the battery is unhappy with the calls and the catcher starts singing "Three bind mice"?

Tell her that there are only two blues on the field today!

Re: Well, that's definitely over-officious
 

Only somewhat. Read those specific rules. They instruct the umpire to eject the player. That is why I suggest you not "cite" those rules unless you are willing to follow them. That doesn't mean you cannot use a little preventive umpiring in conversing with the players and coaches in a proactive manner.

Quote:

If I felt that this "Old MacDonald" was a deliberate act of taunting, I would do something about it to keep the peace. As you well know, those subtle, unsportsman-like, within the rules, kind of actions can lead to volatile responses that are well beyond the rules. What if the words to her song were "your Moma's a piece of crap, and you are too, and my pitcher's gonna shove this ball up your rosy red..."

Now who is being sarcastic? Or would that be an argument? I know it isn't contradiction! (unless you're in a Monty Python skit) :)

Yes, there is no doubt that this scenario is a HTBT, but unless I feel one team is attempting to incite another, I'm not worrying about it.

If a catcher wants to talk, sing, hum, and they are not directing their comments toward or refer to the opposition, that is not my problem. And, yes, if it happens to distract the batter, they are going to have to "suck it up" and concentrate on their job of putting the ball into play. If the coach tells you the noise is distracting his batter, what are you going to do, throw out any fan making noise? What happens if the catcher screams "right side" as the pitch is approaching? Are you now going to tell the catcher they cannot give direction to their teammates?

Quote:

You tell the catcher to stop. And she says "WHAT? I'm just singing a song. There's no rule about singing is there?" Do you now turn to the batter and say, "Suck it up. That's part of the game."

I'm not telling the catcher or batter anything. The coach can tell them after I conference with the coach. The last thing an umpire needs is for a player to misunderstand an umpire's comment, only to have them repeat what they believe it meant to a coach. That is one of the quickest paths to an ejected coach you can find.

Quote:

Maybe in the major leagues but not in any game I work. In fact if I got the above response I might well reply with "Coach, I need a sub for your catcher because I just ejected her. If the coach didn't want to respect my decision, I would likely eject him too.

Well, that's why they have rule books. That way the teams are supposed to know what they are getting, not waiting to find out what this umpire or that one is going to call in "their" game or on "their" field. Both belong to the players, not the umpire.

JMHO



[Edited by IRISHMAFIA on Sep 4th, 2004 at 11:00 AM]