What's The Call

IRISHMAFIA · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 13, 2001, 05:14pm

Speaking ASA:

Bases loaded, no outs. B5 is due to bat, but B7 goes to the plate. With a 1-1 count, B7 hits into a 6-4-3 double play, as R1 crosses the plate and R2 advances and stays at 3B. The manager instructs his team to request time immediately. As soon as the plate umpire is satisfied all play is complete, he grants the request for time.

The manager informs the PU that he would like to appeal the actions of B7 for batting out of order.

What is the call?

Gulf Coast Blue · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 05:31pm

Speaking ASA:

Bases loaded, no outs. B5 is due to bat, but B7 goes to the plate. With a 1-1 count, B7 hits into a 6-4-3 double play, as R1 crosses the plate and R2 advances and stays at 3B. The manager instructs his team to request time immediately. As soon as the plate umpire is satisfied all play is complete, he grants the request for time.

The manager informs the PU that he would like to appeal the actions of B7 for batting out of order.

What is the call?

First of all......with Bases loaded and no outs.....I am going to have B4 be the proper batter.....NOT B5.....

Also I am assuming defensive manager.......Sooooooo.........

B4 (not B5) is out, and all runners must return to the last base legally held at the time of the pitch to the illegal batter.....

R1 back to third, R2 to 2nd, and R3 to 1st with 1 out.

B5 should be the propper batter.

If I messed something up on the Batters........I appologize.....but, I don't see how you can have a B5 without an out.

Joel

[Edited by Gulf Coast Blue on Jan 14th, 2001 at 04:34 PM]

Steve M · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 08:27pm

Actually, we've got 3 outs and no runs here. In ASA, the outs that happen when a batter hits out of order stand but any advance or score (as a result of the improper batter) are nullified. So, the double play will stand AND B5 is out for failing to bat. Don't have the 2001 book yet - heck our local commissioner just now got me some applications after I called. In the 2000 book, this is Rule 7, Section 2, Article C2. For those who do high school ball, see the write-up that came out last year - I think it was situation 16 or 17 - NFHS changed this past season and now only takes 2 outs on this.

IRISHMAFIA · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 08:49pm

Joel,

I could say something like B2 failed to bat, but it was not caught by the defense in time to properly appeal the BOO.

But, in reality, I just screwed up. Sorry.

Mike

Gulf Coast Blue · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 09:09am

Ooops........should have actually opened the book and looked at 7-2 before I made a call. I should have remembered that any outs that takes place is legal. And any advances are nullified.

Joel

[Edited by Gulf Coast Blue on Jan 15th, 2001 at 08:12 AM]

Roger Greene · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 09:43am

Steve,

Re: the Fed blunder you mentioned.

They screwed up a case book play. I beleive(without looking) they had R1, and B3. B3 hits into douple play. B2 declared out for BOO (or BOOT if you prefer). This made 3 outs with only 2 at bats. That was wrong, and they admitted so.

The proper ruling would have been R1's out stands, B2 out for BOO, and B3 returns to plate with 2 outs.

ASA and Fed rulling would be same for the sitch proposed in this play, outs recorded stand,(except for improper BR, his out would be superceded by BOO) advances nulified, proper batter out for BOO. Proper batter to plate if less than 3 outs. (See Fed rule 7-1-2-b Exception "Any outs made on the play stand. An out for batting out of order supercedes an out by the improper batter on a play."

Roger Greene,
Member UT

SamNVa · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 11:39am

Actually Roger, the ASA rule 7.2 does not have the qualifying language stating that "the out for BOOT supercedes any out made by the batter", so in ASA the out on the improper batter at 1st would stand and you could get 3 outs on two batters: R1 out at 2nd, B3 out at 1st and B2 out for not batting in turn. New inning, B3 leads off.

Roger Greene · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 12:49pm

Sam,
I misinteperted what Steve said. That is the way Fed was for a couple of years a while back, and then they went back to the language I posted, which was consistant with the baseball BOO.

I checkd on Pony SB, and in their book, if R1 is put out at second on a BOO, that out is canceled and she is returned!
I would have missed that on on the field (unless the play given in their comments after 8.2.c was an editor's mistake.} They have no statement about any outs made on the play, only that advances and scores are nulified.

USSSA is the same as Fed, the BOO superceds the out by the BR.

I prefer the Fed and USSSA ruling, but that may be because its the same as I use for BB.

Thanks,
Roger Greene,
Member UT

IRISHMAFIA · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 01:01pm

The appeal is legal since it was requested prior to a legal or illegal pitch to the next batter.

As of 1998 I believe, ASA has allowed all outs made on the play involving the wrong batter putting the ball into play to stand. (2 outs)

All runners not retired must return to the last base touched at the time of the pitch last pitch to the improper batter. (no runs may score)

The batter that was due to bat (B5) is ruled out for failing to take his turn at bat. (third out)

The next batter is the one due after the batter ruled out. (B6)

And B7 gets the opportunity to hit into another double play next inning :-)