Heard about this tonight.
Dixie All Stars Angels Division (10U) District Tournament.
Game tied 21-21. Bottom of 8th inning. Pushing midnight.
Bases loaded with two out. 1-2 count on the batter.
Pitcher delivers the pitch with the exact same mechanics as every other pitch she threw in the game. PU calls Illegal Pitch and runners advance to end the game.
I had no connection to either of the teams involved but I, as well as most observers thought this was just a travesty. Winning team's fans even thought it was terrible.
Illegal mechanics were never brought to either the pitcher or coach's attention at any time throughout the game.
I respect the rules but there doesn't seem to be any logic in the timing of this call.
When I heard who the umpire was, I was more dumbfounded. The guy is well respected around our area and I have always thought him one of the best.
For God's sake, it's about the players.

"Heard about this tonight."

Exactly. You HEARD about it, didn't observe the pitch, yet your comment is that it was a bad call. You have absolutely no knowledge of what the pitcher did, or didn't do.

Just because no mention of illegal moves were made during the game, doesn't negate the possibility that it was the ONLY time the pitcher committed an illegal act. If you didn't see what happened, you have no right to comment.

I'll expand my statement:
I heard it from:
An umpire that was present and saw the game,
District official,
Pitching coach who watched the game,
Knowledgeable fans.

Get off your high horse. One does not have to wear blue to know something about the game and make a judgement as to whether a call was bad or not. I did not state that the call was wrong - I said the timing of the call was terrible.
If you have seen any of my infrequent posts, you would know I don't waste anyone's time on here with trivial BS.

The girls fought tooth and nail through 8 innings and the game should not have ended this way.
Rules should be respected and observed. However,a heartless approach to a 10U game defeats the purpose of having youth sports.

Chief,

The call is the call, regardless of the age, score, inning or level of play.

Did anyone tell you why the IP was called? And I'm not expecting an answer along the lines of "to get the game over". Why was the pitcher illegal?

I have talked to coaches about their pitchers without no one else on the field or in the stands knowing about it. For as much as you know, this could have happened. OTOH, if the umpire did make a call for the sake of getting the game over, shame on him.

The girl did not maintain contact with the pitcher's plate. She moved her foot off the plate prior to starting the delivery. That's illegal. No question.
Illegal Pitch call is not being questioned. I only question the lack of calls throughout the game for identical motion and then making the call to end the game.
To hear how the first 2 outs of the inning were made adds to the sitch. One bang bang play at the plate and a web gem catch behind 3rd base and throw home from the knees to hold the runner.
It's rare to find a real competitive 10U game but this one was a classic and should have been played out.
This umpire would not make a call to get a game over at midnight or at 3 AM.
I talk softball with this umpire all the time and will no doubt see him soon. Besides a passion for softball, we have another common thread in that he retired from the USN 18 months ago. I am anxious to hear his side.

21-21? A Classic? Sounds like a slugfest and no gloves until the last inning.

10U playing until midnight??? Dixie doesn't have a curfew?? :(

well, I think its safe to say you wont know the whole story until you get his side. Please let us know what he says!

Dixie's curfew is that you can't begin a game after 9.

What district was this? (PS - why the HECK are they still playing their Angels tourney - state starts tomorrow!)

Note - Dixie tourney rules force you to change pitchers quite often. You say it wasn't called all game, but it's likely this was that pitcher's first inning.

(C) — A pitcher shall be limited to:
DIXIE ANGELS and PONYTAILS — six (6) innings in any one (1) game....

Obviously I don't have all the specifics but from the officials that I discussed this with, nothing indicated that she hadn't pitched several innings prior to the 8th. She could have legally entered the game in the third inning and still been around for the 8th.

Maybe we're beating this in the ground. If some think that a score of 21-21 can't be a classic battle full of they score, we score innings at the 10U level, I or they are missing something.
Excuse me, but get your heads out of the rule book occasionally and go out and enjoy a good game of softball.
Watch the smiles, tears and competiveness of these players. You as umpires, we as coaches and Dads and fans should remember that the game exists for the players and it's they that we all get wrapped up in this game for.

I guess you didn't leave your condescention back in the Navy.

So that says we should not call an infracting when we see it? In the name of "sympathy" (i.e. not being "heartless") the infraction should be ignored?

Without the story from the umpire, your claim that the same pitcher had made the same infraction all game and had been observed but ignored is just speculation.

I enjoy 10U games, but even so, claiming a 21-21 game that has gone on for hours a classic does require some explanation of what you mean by "classic."

I do agree with Mike - if your speculation is correct, (the same pitcher had made the same infraction all game), and the umpire had seen it all game, and just made the call to end the game, that is shameful. But it has nothing to do with the game being a "classic" or being "about the players." It is just plain shameful officiating.

I will withhold any additional input until I have spoken to the umpire. I believe I can locate his number.

Just to answer the question about dates:
From Dixie Softball site:
June 28 to July 13 — Suggested district tournament dates (including sub-district events).
July 30 - Teams to arrive at Dixie Angels World Series site (Bay (Bay St. Louis), Mississippi).
The tournament in discussion is Mississippi District 9, being hosted by East Central.

Dixie Curfew
 

Under Section IX: Tournament Games (C) No tournament game shall begin after 11:30 PM. Note: This rule may be waived by the tournament director in order to complete a tournament. Our state tournament starts July 16th.

I guess I should have asked what state first, eh? :)

Trust me, I've seen plenty of games from the stands, especially recently, as since I'm a Dixie District Director, I can't umpire the tourneys (would be rather silly if I was umpiring and we had a call on the field protested, they took it to committee, couldn't resolve it, called their director and my phone rang on the field!)

And if I sounded like I was on a high horse, I apologize - I don't think I sounded that way.

About the pitchers, if a girl pitches 3 innings in a tourney game, she cannot pitch in the following game. So MOST (not all) coaches only pitch the girls 2 innings. Also, they can only pitch 11 in the tourney - so unless this was a 3-team tourney, I suspect many of the pitchers were running out of innings by the final (which might be part of the reason for the 21-21 score as well!), so this pitcher may have been the bottom of the barrel for this team.

In any case, at 10U, I would expect umpires to be rather lenient on illegal pitches, and certainly if they are GOING to call it, call it the first time they see it.

My last dig, however, has to be to the implied assertion that this call cost them the game. What about the first 21 runs? And if they had allowed about 3 runs an inning all game, one might suspect that the runner already on third had a pretty good probability of scoring in the normal course of things.

I do feel your pain though. Were I the Dist Director at that game, I would have been grimacing at the call myself.

Nope. Dixie's tournament rules state that no game can begin after 11:30. And that can be, and frequently is, waived by the tournament director. So, like many of Dixie's tournament "rules," it is really a non rule.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TexBlue

Quote:

21-21? A Classic? Sounds like a slugfest and no gloves until the last inning.

Pretty common in Dixie. Another reason why I am not wild about calling any Dixie softball. The "participation vs. perfection" is in theory, a good idea. However, it often waters down the talent, and thus the game.

I had a game last week that was 14-0 heading into the bottom of the fourth inning...one inning and I have a run rule. (This was Belles, age 15U). Final score was 18-12, went the full seven innings. Didn't get home until after one in the morning.

why is someone complaining about a call in a 10u game. I think the score shows what skill leval where talking about. teach the basics, a win is just a bonus

Then why have umpires at all?

Besides, the complaint was not about the call per se but about the timing of the call and the suspicious motives.

Games that start at 11:30??? Ouch!!!

Oddly, that is where you hear the most complaining. The coaches/parents are about as schooled in the game as their kids are, and subsequently believe a lot of the myths that are still out there regarding the rules. They think that they know it all at that point. As they continue to play the game, they learn that there is so much that they don't know, plus, they naturally learn more about the game and how to coach/manage. I have found that the older the teams, the less whining/complaining I hear.

Who is this imposter?

Well, it isn't me. I know how to spell the name of the state in which I live. That, however, does lead me to believe this is one of the trolls from McGriffs as one of them use to routinely misspell the name of my state.

And wait until my wife gets a hold of this troll!

I would suggest that you not respond to this cowardly imposter.

Minnesota, or Iowa, or "Deleware"?

Spelling aside, He doesn't seem to know where he is!

Speaking of weird pitching styles.

Had F1 here on Tuesday.

Takes his sign from the rubber just fine. (stretch position)

Takes a big step towards 1st with his free foot (very common) joins his hands together BEHIND him as he bends way over.

Brings his free foot back to the rubber hands join in front, a fair pause, then delivers the pitch normally.

OK, NOW which state is letting males use BB pitching in softball?

Just a comment about a weird style I saw is all.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kono

Quote:

Games that start at 11:30??? Ouch!!!

At the Dixie Belles "World Series" five or six years back they had a championship game start at 1:00 am. Rumor had it that the bigwigs that were in town wanted to get the tournament over and catch the flights that they had later in the day. Never mind that the girls had been up since 7 the previous morning. Not sure how true the rumor was, but it sure seemed suspicious to all involved.

[Edited by Skahtboi on Jul 9th, 2004 at 05:05 PM]