R1 at 1B and R2 at 2B....

B1 hits a screamer to F4 who catches for the out and immediately throws to F3 and drills R1 in the back as R1 is diving back to 1B. The ball ricochets of R1 and rolls into DBT. Base awards?

Two base each from the tme the ball left fielders hand.

Robmoz,

(Aside: I corrected your terminology. On the softball boards, we use FED/ASA terminology which is: r1 is the runner farthest along the absepaths, or the first runner on base.(

As on any overthrow that goes into DBT, the runners get two bases from their position on the basepath at the time of the throw; so R1 is awarded home and R2 goes to 3rd.

SamC

Whiskers, I may be thinking about baseball here, but since this is the first play by an infielder, wouldn't it be 2 from the time of pitch? I know that's what it would be in baseball and I thought this rule was the same in softball. Just curious.

In ASA softball, it's just what he said it was. All runners are awarded two bases from the moment the errant throw leaves the player's hand.

So in this case, it'd be home and 3B, provided that both runners tagged up properly after the caught line drive, if they were off the bases.

No

ASA Rule 8-5G.

It is, as said, 2 from the position of the runner at the time of the throw.

Since the direction the runner is moving makes no difference, and R2 (SB notation) is between 1st and 2nd (and presumably, R1 between 2nd and 3rd), the award turns out to be the same as it would have been for baseball. R2 is awarded 3rd and R1 is awarded home.

ASA does not recognize "first play by an infielder." Example: Abel on 1B stealing on the release. Baker hits a high chopper to F6, who sees that he will have no play on Abel at 2B. After Abel touches 2B, F6 throws the ball away in his attempt to get Baker at 1B.

In ASA, Abel is awarded home and Baker 2B. (Time of throw.)

In OBR, Abel is awarded 3B and Baker 2B. (Time of pitch.)

In the play you describe, I can't remember offhand whether OBR considers F4's catch of the line drive the first play and the throw the second. Of course, on caught line drives, such differentiation is moot. ASA wouldn't differentiate anyway.

ASA awards 2 bases regardless even of whether the runner was in the act of returning to a base he had left too soon.

Example: Abel on 1B, no outs. Baker hits a drive to right-center. Abel rounds 2B as F9 makes a diving catch. As Abel is halfway to 3B, the coach yells to him that the ball was caught. Abel reverses direction and is heading back to 2B in his attempt to get back to 1B when F8 throws the ball over F3 and into DBT.

In ASA, Abel is awarded home—2 bases from where he was when the throw left the fielder's hand.

In OBR, because Abel had initiated a return, his award is 3B—2 bases from the base he was returning to.

No, that's not what it would be in baseball. On the above situation, the award is two bases from the time of the throw (TOT). The first play was the catch. "First play" by an infielder refers to trying to retire the batter/runner, or a runner on a fielder's choice.

Thanks for clearing it up for me Bluezebra.

Ok...thanks for the clarifications.

Speaking ASA

The origin of the throw has not effected the base awards in over 15 year.

Didn't U-Trip award "one plus one" for a while? Abel on 1B. Baker hits a liner, and Abel runs. F4 spears the ball and throws to 1B to get Abel, but throws the ball into DBT. Every code I know of awards Abel 3B, but I seem to remember USSSA doing their own thing on that play.

In SOFTBALL, we use SOFTBALL rules.
SOFTBALL rules say 2 bases from the time of the throw other than a pitch, by anyone, first throw, second throw, fourth throw by the catcher, etc. It also does not matter if it touches a runner, touches a fielder, touches a coach, bounces of a base or plate, etc.

SOFTBALL is defined as ASA, ISF, NFHS, NCAA and PONY when necessary.

You left out USFA, not that I blame you! ;)

Not necessarily. There are several other very good organizations promoting the sport, and USSSA happens to be one. And, in this case, their ruling, for FP anyway, is no different.

As Dixie Director, District 7, for Texas, I must add that you've forgotten at least one more established softball league other than U-Trip. :)

There's NSA, too.

Lets add a couple more.

AFA, NFSA, and LL.

Keep on going, guys. I haven't seen one yet that I HAVEN'T heard of. Gotta be one out there somewhere.