I'm work for four differrent towns/asscoiations/UIC's, all Men's ASA SP Rec leagues. Last night I'm working for one that I'm fairly new with and the UIC is one of the coaches in the game. In my pre-game, I always state "3 warm up pitches every inning" as is ASA. At the begining of the top of the second inning, this coach/my UIC puts in a new pitcher. After 3 warm up pitches, I tell the catcher that's it. Pitcher throws fourth pitch. I call ball. Coach from bench asks what am I doing? I say he only gets three. Coach says no, he gets SEVEN. I say no, ASA is three, all the time for every new inning and every new pitcher, take a look at the book. (I'm hoping that I am right, and pretty sure that I am, else I would not have been so confident to contradict my boss in front of the whole game. But I stuck to my guns, politely) Game continues. He looks it up in the book, and next inning announces that I was correct. Whew!

Anyone ever had a boss/UIC question you like that during a game? How did it work out?

Never had a boss or UIC question it, but I've had several coaches over the years say they've never heard of such a rule. Or the 1 minute in between innings. Or awarding balls or strikes as mandated by the rules.

I keep feeling like I am educating the masses by enforcing the rules. Ahhh, the life and responsibilities of an educator---- uh, umpire.

Two years ago, UIC was a coach, and I was working his game. ASA slowpitch. Called obstruction on his catcher for blocking the plate. He went far enough arguing that he actually got ejected. Called me at home that night, telling me I was right, he was wrong, he was sorry, and that it took a lot of integrity to stand up to him. Also promised he would not ever put another umpire in that situation.

Bluefoot,

Just remember, when doing the real game FP, it is five warm
ups or 1 minute. :D
However, except in championship play that is usually changed
to five first inning and three there after.

Yes, 3 pitches in ASA slowpitch is correct... unless the Blue is busy with other duties (subs or whatever) in which case they can keep on tossing until ready.

Having said that I don't think I have ever made this call.. and no doubt there have been games where a fourth pitch has been thrown. If I was too busy with something to call for the batter then I was too busy to count warm up pitchs and I am not going to go looking for a call to make. But if I had specifically said "that's it" and "batter up" and they kept tossing anyway I would certinly ring up a ball.

Ernie
Anchorage, AK
ASA/NFHS

Quote:

Just remember, when doing the real game FP, it is five warm ups or 1 minute.

Well, it truth I like FP better myself, but we have about 300 SP teams here in Anchorage that would argue that SP is a "real game" too! LOL

Ernie
Anchorage AK
ASA/NFHS

Glen,

Remember when doing the REAL softball game, ASA FP, MP or SP, it is 5, 5 and 3 warm-up pitches respectively or 1 minute in all game at all levels from the 1st inning of the 1st game to the final inning of the last championship game.

:D

Mike,

Championship play was my exception. Around here in 'rec'
and league, it is 5-3. Championship is always 5-5.

AFA, we utilize the same 5-3, even in Nationals.

And I was speaking about all the time, every inning of every game of the season. Doing something differently just because it is a "rec" league or friendly doesn't help the players. If anything, it confuses them and the coaches and in turn, makes the tournament umpires look bad when it is enforced in championship play.

Didn't say it was right, just what happens more often than it should.

"At the begining of the top of the second inning, this coach/my UIC..."

Great example of the utter stupidity of an example of conflict of interest. League officials should be flogged for allowing this to happen.

Our local FP league rule is 5 1st inning; 5 new pitcher; 3 otherwise. That certainly is no problem for championship play. The reduction is to speed up play, since the league time limit is 65 min.

You want "speed up", use the one minute. A hustling SP pitcher may get in three, but I don't know of a JO pitcher that would get to three, let alone five.

Blue,

Although I think you were technically correct, IMO, you went a bit too far with the letter of the rules, and not with the spirit of the rules, especially in a rec league.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dakota
Tom,
How local is your FP league? In the Netherlands we have the same rules. We work with I(nternational)SF/E(uropean)SF-rules.
Off course when a substitution takes place and umpire's aren't ready to start the game, or someone is hurt. pitcher is allowed to do same practice. BUT a soon as umpire is ready game MUST continue...

Alex

Well since I had informed the battery that they got three warmup pitches, and since the pitcher blatantly disregarded the rule after I had told them, I had to stick to it. I only ump by one set of rules, ASA. I show no favoritism to either team, even if it's my boss's. And he gave me credit when he acknowledged his error. At the start of the season, he told me to "take no crap from anyone" (so I include him). So while I was not confrontational, I remained consistent to the ASA rules. That's what I've studied, and that's all I know how to do.

BTW - regarding conflict of interest, he is also the director of the Men's Leagues in the town. I've heard people complain about the conflict of interest this has posed. I work there infrequently.

I disagree. There is a reason those rules are in place and it isn't just to take up space in the rule book. Game control, after all, is part of the umpire's job.

And if you ask me, Sean enforced the rule IN the spirit meant since it's existence is to avoid delays in the game while insuring all pitchers receive equal consideration.

<i>Well since I had informed the battery that they got three warmup pitches, and since the pitcher blatantly disregarded the rule after I had told them, I had to stick to it.</i>

Yea, I guess you're right, then.

I agree... remember, I was explaining the league's rule and rationale, not mine. Although, given the, ahem, variety of umpires the league deals with, it is probably a more reliable speed-up approach than trying to get the 1 minute enforced. The catchers are pretty self-enforcing on the 5-3 rule.

My other point is that a local rule like this would have no impact on the same team when they reach championship play, since no one will complain when they stop at 3 warmup pitches. There may be an occasional gripe from a coach when the other team uses 5, though. ;)

It's a very large league, but it is not THAT big!

JO tournaments FP we use 5 of they hustle out, 3 if they don't, or 1 or none...most pitchers were hustling out and getting the pitches in.

HS FP ball, several of the better pitchers in this area take 3 at most. One only wants one pitch.

I never took any...let's play.

Yeah, right. Tom, wake up, you are dreaming.

Maybe you misunderstand what I said - or maybe I am dreaming http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung.../sleeping2.gif - a team that is used to only 3 warmups, and therefore calls "balls in..." after 2 will get no complaints from the umpires at a national.

While I don't rigorously (i.e. check my timer) enforce the 1 minute, I do use the rule. I have disallowed ANY warmups, or limited them to 1, when teams lollygag around, whether it is the catcher not being ready, or the coach wanting to have a team meetings, or the pitcher just screwing around,.. whatever. I've never had any griping about it, either. I give some leeway if the catcher was on base or at bat, but she'd better be making visible effort to hurry.

The reason is not to get the game over sooner - these are timed games - the reason is to give the players more playing time within the time limit.

I agree Dakota!

Here in The Last Frontier we have no special local rules for warm up pitches so we just go with the 5 pitches or 1 minute rule (ASA/NFHS). I will tell both of my catchers "Don't wait for us to tell you, take charge and call Balls In after 4 pitches". Then I monitor that when I am not busy between innings by counting the pitches. It is usually self enforcing, and I am not counting seconds or looking at my watch.

But if the team is slow coming out on the feild, or F2 was on base and nobody else comes out to warm up F1 I will use the 1-minute rule to goose em along. "Half of your minute is gone, Team, let's husle out!" Then maybe call "Balls In" after only one pitch. Slow teams will get the idea after an inning or two.

Some coaches try to hold a big team conference outside the dugout between innings. If this is the defense the same tactic works.. "Only one minute between innings, Coach, and it's half gone! Better put 'em on the feild!"

Maybe you misunderstood my point. Teams and coaches will complain about anything, right, wrong or indifferent. :D

If his/her pitcher hustles out there, takes three and is ready to go, that's great. But because they are use to just getting three (FP) at home and all of a sudden see another team taking five, the complaints will come if they are unaware of the actual rule.

YES! THAT is exactly my point. Invariably teams complain about anything. Especially prima donna pitchers (yes, even in SP). Even though I stick to the ASA 3 warm pitches, some players still complain because other umpires are inconsistent, or don't know the rules. They give them 5 in the first inning, then 3 thereafter, or 3 in the first, and only 1 after that. That's when I hear, "But (so and so) lets us have (x number) of pitches!" This take can be applied to many ASA rule misapplications, as we know.

By holding firm to the rules and using ASA as my guide, I reduce some of the whining when teams see that I am consistent and providing no advantage for either team, or letting a team dictate what the rules are. But in my 3 years, noone in SP still knows this rule, so I'll probably be enforcing it as long as I continue to go behind the plate.