Tie goes to the runner-sometimes ?

[chuck chopper]

I have noticed an inconsistancy I have & wondered if I need to change or see how others view this. If on a tag play, the foot touches the bag at the same time the tag is applied I always call "SAFE". However on a thrown ball force situation if the catch & the touch of the base happens at the same time I always call "OUT". So I have ties going to the runner "sometimes" ?

[FUBLUE]

I prefer to alternate...safe first time, out second, safe third time, out fourth time.

TIE GOES TO THE UMPIRE

I've always gone with the theory (right or wrong) that it is the runners obligation to beat the throw through the base...so if they don't, then they are out.

[mcrowder]

The book actually says the throw/touch has to beat the runner to the base. However, in practice I do admit that I'm more likely to call on out if things are so close that I can not determine the difference.

I heard it explained once on a throw to a base - you see the foot hit the bag and hear the throw hit the glove simultaneously. Since the speed of light is faster than the speed of sound, the ball would have had to hit the glove before the foot hit the bag (not to mention that the pop of the glove happened some fraction of a second before the ball entered the mitt). Then again - if you calculate this out and are 10 feet from the bag, you're talking mini-microseconds.

[mick]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Then again - if you calculate this out and are 10 feet from the bag, you're talking mini-microseconds.

10'~ 0.008695 seconds

Eyes and ears cannot compute.
mick

[Dakota]

I have a tendancy to make the call in favor of the play (or alternatively, against the error/muff, etc.)

Routine grounder to F6, who fumbles around with the ball. "Tie" at first - SAFE.

Tough grounder in the gap. F6 makes a dramatic grab and an off balance throw. "Tie" at first - OUT.

I wouldn't call it something I think about (no time for that) - just a tendancy I've noticed.

[Ed Maeder]

The last time I looked there was no such thing as a tie in the book. Safe or out, that's what we get paid the big bucks for. Your only going to please half the people there no matter what you call. Take the heat for the out.

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by Ed Maeder
The last time I looked there was no such thing as a tie in the book. Safe or out, that's what we get paid the big bucks for. Your only going to please half the people there no matter what you call. Take the heat for the out.

When doubt, guess! (Coaches think that's what we do anyway!)

[BigUmpJohn]

Originally posted by FUBLUE
When doubt, guess!

Or you can just yell "TIE!", walk away, and have the players figure it out from there.

[chuck chopper]

Dakota..interesting that you let the DEFENSE dictate your call. Nothing the runner does impacts your call.
.
Big John..love the idea..however I don't think it will fly.
The proper mechanic would likely be your left arm straight out & your right arm straight up in the air making a fist.
.
I knew I was in trouble when we started talking about the speed of light & sound. Just remember the light we see has been bent by the curvature of the earth & its gravity.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by chuck chopper
Dakota..interesting that you let the DEFENSE dictate your call. Nothing the runner does impacts your call.

Those were just quick examples.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by BigUmpJohn
Or you can just yell "TIE!", walk away, and have the players figure it out from there.

I love it! Great mental picture!

[FUBLUE]

Originally posted by Dakota

I love it! Great mental picture!

Worked with a HS kid last night, first game above 8U coach pitch. She did a pretty good job, but on one really close play at first (runner on third coming home) she didn't say anything. Throw comes home for second out (great play by catcher) and both teams run off the field.

I ask her what she called, and she said she didn't do anything. It was a TIE!" I told her, "ties go to the umpire."

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by Dakota
I have a tendancy to make the call in favor of the play (or alternatively, against the error/muff, etc.)

Routine grounder to F6, who fumbles around with the ball. "Tie" at first - SAFE.

Tough grounder in the gap. F6 makes a dramatic grab and an off balance throw. "Tie" at first - OUT.

I wouldn't call it something I think about (no time for that) - just a tendancy I've noticed.

I have always favored Joel's theory on this. Which player
made the play close (tie). Who had the best effort. The
defensive player, or the offensive player. (example - F6
goes deep in the hole, dives, catches ground shot, and while
on her knees, fires a bullet to F3, which is a 'banger', that
blue could call either way and get away with. I will always have
an out in this situation. Effort out.

[Ed Maeder]

Who's doing the guessing Fublue safe first time, out second etc. That sounds like guessing. I've never guessed a safe or out call in 21 years of officiating and if I'm in a funk with the call it has to be safe. No such thing as a tie!

[blue]

There are no ties in softball. Either the throw beat the runner, or the runner beat the throw. I'm going to call it as I see it. That being said, just as we seel some calls, I believe players can seel soem plays. A runner who hustles to beat a lazy throw will help sell a "safe" call. An outstanding defensive play can help sell an "out" call, just as a defender bobbling the ball before the throw can help sell a "safe" call. I'm not saying I think of all these things as I make a call, but I do believe on very close plays, player actions have influence how we see things.