Strike Zone Discussion

[wadeintothem]

The other thread on strike zone got me wondering about Strike Zone.

I've been consciously working on my low outside - Low outside is the toughest one IMO. I'm the opposite than what was described on the post though:

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/13851

i have a tendency to call a strike on a call that when I think about later maybe should have been a ball. I do work a close slot.

My UIC told me he uses the catchers knees to have a consistant low zone.. but that hasnt helped me any since its hard enough to pay attention to everything else in addition to the cathers knee location.

I thought I would get Opinions on this photo for what you would call a strike.

Assume the balls as depicted are over the plate.
Fast Pitch



Ball A) Meant to depict a ball where perhaps only the top portion runs across the top of the knee.

Ball B) where a small portion of the ball is below the top part of the knee, but basically runs right across the knees.

Ball C) Meant to depict a ball where the middle of the ball runs across the armpits.

For me, on ball A - if it was outside end of plate, it might be one of them where I called a strike and on thinking about it later I might think of it is a bad call.

Ball B is a strike to me.

Ball C is too high for my taste, but I have seen umps (maybe even the ump in the last UCLA game) call that a strike.

Photo is of my DD so no copyright concerns, etc, in case that is moderated.



[Edited by wadeintothem on May 26th, 2004 at 04:11 PM]

[chuck chopper]

I believe by definition all are strikes. Arm pit & top of knee. Doesn't say more than 50% of the ball crosses the arm pit or top of knee. Thus if any of the ball hits the mark, I call a strike

[wadeintothem]

So you use the "any part of the ball" goes through "any part of the zone" .. its a strike? Thats kind of what I was wondering.. how much of the ball should be in the legal strike zone.

I see a ball cross the knees, and I'm quick to call strike, followed by the invariable "Hey that was in the dirt" cackles.

[FUBLUE]

I'd call "A" a strike--for me, part of the ball has to hit the top of the knee.

I'd call "B" as strike--it is at the knee...great pitch no matter what corner of the plate it is on.

I'd call "C" a ball at any level--I never have liked that pitch. The ball has to be hitable...that ball is not hitable on a consistent basis...nothing to do but pop that pitch up or miss it.

I assume this is a fastpitch game.

Here's my question: Wherever your outside corner is, would you more likely call a pitch with the height of "A" a strike or a pitch with the height of "B" a strike?

[Edited by FUBLUE on May 26th, 2004 at 04:12 PM]

[eagle]

Technically speaking, ANY part of the ball passing through ANY part of the strike zone is a strike. So in a technical sense, all three pitches could be called a strike. However, given the diameter of the ball, if the bottom of the ball passes through the top of the strike zone, the ball would be close to shoulder height. Vice versa, if the top of the ball passes through the bottom of the strike zone, the majority of the ball is below the knees. Consequently, most umpires will call a strike only if the top of the ball passes through the top of the strike zone and only if the bottom of the ball passes through the bottom of the strike zone. This will bring the strike zone down from the top and up from the bottom which will give a much more realistic and consistent strike zone. Horizontally, call a strike if any part of the ball passes through the strike zone including the inside edge of the ball. This will widen the zone eliminating the postage stamp strike zone that is very difficult for pitchers to hit consistently, especially young ones. Of the three pitches depicted here, I would most likely call A & C a ball and B would be a strike but just barely.

[wadeintothem]

I think I'm low. i'd surely call B.. and I think A also. My daughter was in the stands one time and she said that in the coaches pregame speech the coach said "he calls them low so you better be swinging if it's close".

It's giving me a complex

Is FP, I edited the original post to specify.



[Edited by wadeintothem on May 26th, 2004 at 04:16 PM]

[FUBLUE]

Then again, if coaches perceive you as calling A when they bat, but not when the pitch, you're inconsistent.

[alabamabluezebra]

Eagle states:

This will bring the strike zone down from the top and up from the bottom which will give a much more realistic and consistent strike zone.

What you meant to say is a more fan friendly zone. The size of the zone has no bearing on consistency. What makes the zone you described more realistic than the zone Wade or Chuck described?

FUBLUE states:

I'd call "C" a ball at any level--I never have liked that pitch. The ball has to be hitable...that ball is not hitable on a consistent basis...nothing to do but pop that pitch up or miss it.

It is a pitcher's pitch. Is a low pitch that catches the outside corner hittable? Not any easier that the high pitch.

[wadeintothem]

I think A is more hitable than C.

I know its an evil sin to consider MLB - but you would never see C in MLB as strike and A is a strike quite often. I saw an ump the other night - i forget which game, but he was consistently giving about 2-3 inches outside and a was low also.

Shorter wider strike zones in FP is preached by my UIC as well.

Originally posted by FUBLUE
Then again, if coaches perceive you as calling A when they bat, but not when the pitch, you're inconsistent.

Now youre trying to give me a complex!!!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by wadeintothem
The other thread on strike zone got me wondering about Strike Zone.

I've been consciously working on my low outside - Low outside is the toughest one IMO. I'm the opposite than what was described on the post though:

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/13851

i have a tendency to call a strike on a call that when I think about later maybe should have been a ball. I do work a close slot.

My UIC told me he uses the catchers knees to have a consistant low zone.. but that hasnt helped me any since its hard enough to pay attention to everything else in addition to the cathers knee location.

I thought I would get Opinions on this photo for what you would call a strike.

Assume the balls as depicted are over the plate.
Fast Pitch



Ball A) Meant to depict a ball where perhaps only the top portion runs across the top of the knee.

Ball B) where a small portion of the ball is below the top part of the knee, but basically runs right across the knees.

Ball C) Meant to depict a ball where the middle of the ball runs across the armpits.

For me, on ball A - if it was outside end of plate, it might be one of them where I called a strike and on thinking about it later I might think of it is a bad call.

Ball B is a strike to me.

Ball C is too high for my taste, but I have seen umps (maybe even the ump in the last UCLA game) call that a strike.

Photo is of my DD so no copyright concerns, etc, in case that is moderated.



[Edited by wadeintothem on May 26th, 2004 at 04:11 PM]

Speaking ASA

Only B is a definite strike;

C is never a strike;

And A depends on the umpire.

[FUBLUE]

Alabamabluezebra said:
"It is a pitcher's pitch. Is a low pitch that catches the outside corner hittable? Not any easier that the high pitch."

IMHO:
A "low outside corner pitch"? No, not hittable. An outside corner pitch on the low end of the strike zone (read knee--you pick B or A)? Yeah, definitely hittable. With girls at all levels using longer, lighter bats, taking hitting lessons since age 3, etc., it is definitely a hitable pitch.

With "C" all that can happen is a pop-up or wiff. Ocassionally a girl will get ahold of one, but rarely (on average).

With "B" or "A" on the outside corner they can do all kinds of things with it..ground ball, lift it to right field, push-bunt, etc. It makes the defense make a play.

I worked the first game of our state HS tournament last night. I called three pitches on outside corner at the knee all night. Rest of the time girls hit it. One girl bunted it; another looped it over F3's head. Another lifted it to centerfield.

Only once did I see "C" hit all night...and it was a pop up to short center.

IMHO, "C" is not a pitchers pitch. It a pitch you throw to try to get someone to swing at it...it's a waste pitch...either that, or you can't keep the ball down.

[whiskers_ump]

I agree with Mike, the only strike I see in the picture
is B. However, I am sure A will get some calls. C, never
in my book. Drop C below the front elbow and yes, Strikeee.

[BigUmpJohn]

From the picture for me, A and B are both strikes in my eyes. Pitcher's love to get pitch A called. C is WAY too high. The highest that I'll go for C is the middle of that image on the batter's shirt. But that's just me.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
I agree with Mike, the only strike I see in the picture
is B. However, I am sure A will get some calls. C, never
in my book. Drop C below the front elbow and yes, Strikeee.

I agree with Glen and Mike. As shown I see "B" as the only strike.

Another consideration would be, where is the batter standing in the batter's box?

Michael

[wadeintothem]

As you can see, it is a typical wonderfully lined batters box!

I dont think it matters for me. I dont change my strike zone at all if they move around the box, even when I'm giving some outside and they are back in the box, thats their prob.

Anyway, if you look close, you can see the plate, she is back in the box. The plate is very dirty, but you can see it in the pic around her middle toe left foot.