Last night I had a U-12 FP game where the pitcher hit six batters within three innings and was constantly and consistently throwing inside to right handed batters. Her velocity was quite good for an 11 year old. I honestly believed that the pitcher was not throwing intentially at the batters, she was just wild inside.

I told the manager that he should remove the pitcher if she hit another batter as I was fearing retaliation from the opposing team, although this was not readily apparent. I heard quite a few comments from the parents in attendance from the team that was being hit.

The manager refused to remove the pitcher.

How should I have handled this situation?

Were you the umpire, the opposing head coach, the assistant coach on the wild pitcher's team, or a fan?

If the umpire, what rules were being used? Any local rules about this situation?

Speaking ASA. Unless you believe it is intentional, not much you can do.

I was the umpire, ASA rules.

You cannot, by rule, forcefully remove the pitcher unless you believe there was intention.

The retaliation shouldn't have been your concern as much as the safety of the players.

If it is obvious the pitcher was NOT improving and the coach will not remove the pitcher, there are remedies.

I would suggest that you called both coaches out to the field (away from players and parents) and state that for fear of injury to a batter, the game would not proceed until the wild pitcher has been replaced.

When the defensive coach protests that the rules don't permit you to do that, agree with him. Then remind him that there is nothing in the rule book which requires you to umpire the ball game, or the other team to knowingly place their batters in harm's way. BTW, don't ask the other team not to play. If they choose to do so, it must be their decision, not your suggestion. You, as the umpire, must be willing to step away as if the team does, they would be subject to forfeiting the game if some idiotic protest committee disagrees.

JMHO,

James,

Unless your league has a local rule covering the situation, there is nothing you can do unless you thought the pitcher was deliberately throwing at the batters. However I would keep an eye on the other team's pitcher and be quick to warn if here were any signs of retalitory HBPe thrown. It's one thing to hit batters because you're wild and another thing to do it deliberately.

SamC

I like this approach, Mike. Basically, you are giving the coach a choice: either remove the pitcher, or you will suspend the game for safety reasons and let the league deal with it. You hopefully get a new pitcher, but if it comes to "walking" it is the umpire suspending the game, not the opponents forfeiting.

Of course - if the pitcher continues to hit batters after being warned, you can consider it intentional and eject her... its a judgement call and just align up your judgement to fit the facts as seen and necessary for safe play. Once you have stepped up and announced you dont think it is intentional then you have limited yourself. Another thing you can do is Ball, Ball, Ball, Ball, Ball, Ball Ball, etc... the coach will get the idea. I havent had this happen.. i'm just thinking what might go through my head if this was happening.

Sorry, brain will not permit FYCs.

What is FYC?

Use your imagination on the first letter but the other 2 letters stand for "YOU COACH" or "YOU CALL" depending on who you ask. I have heard it as both.

F--- U Call, maybe. :D

The first most important thing to remember is that this is 12U girls' fastpitch softball. The vast majority of the players are playing softball for the very first time and are just learning the game. The skill of the players at this age level will be all over the spectrum from very good to very bad. Unless something has already happened in the game that would lead you to believe that the pitcher was deliberately trying to hit batters there is nothing you can do. You even said yourself the you believed that the girl was not trying to hit any batters. The fact that she did not have very good control is not your concern. The pitcher was wild and her coach may not have had any other girl to take her place so he/she was just doing the best coaching job possible given the circumstances. It is not a sports official's job to tell a coach that his/her pitcher is not cutting the mustard and that you want the pitcher replaced.

Furthermore, this is not a safety issue as some people in this thread have put forward. I am sure that there are many officials reading my post and thinking that I am doing a flip-flop on a safety issue but I am being consistent with my beliefs. The rules of the sport define the safety issues and a pitcher who does not have good control is not one of them. And the thing you should absolutely not do is what IRISHMAFIA has suggested. The girl is wild, let it alone, her coach will deal with it in his/her own way.

After all, we do not take kindly to a coach telling us that we are not doing a very good job, so I would not suggest telling a coach that his/her pitcher is not doing a very good job either.

As Mike stated, you gotta go with how you feel. If, in your judgement, she is intentionally hitting the batters, lose the pitcher. If not, you may need to talk to the coaches about crowd control.

I was doing a PONY National 2 years ago. 1 day was in the Mustang (10-U) group. I had a pitcher who was clocked in the mid 50's. This is a 10 year old. She was from Glen's area, Crystal City. She hit the 1st 6 batters of the game. After the batters quit digging in, she started throwing strikes. Towards the end of the game, she hit 4 more in a row, since they were starting to hit her. The team's parents whose kids were getting hit were getting pretty loud, obnoxious, and threatening. I called for the TD to come up to the field and got both coaches out in the infield. I told the pitcher's coach I was starting to wonder about the timing of the HBP's. I told the other head coach to control the his crowd and I didn't need to hear anymore threats about hitting their players. The TD came up and demanded I eject the pitcher on the next HBP. I flat out refused, told him it was my field, I'd do what I thought was proper. I just wanted him for what was going on outside the fence. Sure enough, she hit another batter, after a girl got a hit off her. I called the coach back to me and told him that was enough. His response was " They just need to learn to get of the way of the pitch."

My ejection of the coach was a lot louder than his protest. The pitcher left with him. Come to find out, after the game, she had already sent one batter to the hospital for X-Rays on the elbow. She hit 9 batters in a previous game that day, under the same circumstances. I was glad to not know any of this, as it left my mind unclouded about was going on in my game. I have no problem with HBP's, just not intentional ones.

Glen, you probably have called her in the last year or so. She would be in the 12-U now. Little Oriental girl, tall, skinny (or was then, anyway). She plays out of Corpus, in the Crystal City Youth League.

Why is it my call? : )

Cause, you da man!

All the Rec. Councils I ump use a (3 in an inning, 4 in a game) limit on hit batters.

Me, too (re: the second sentence I quoted).

However, if you notice carefully, the original post said the pitcher had good speed. Mike's post (which I thought was a good solution IF there is a safety issue) was put forward based on an assumed judgment by the field umpire that there WAS a safety issue. IOW, safety not unruly fans was the priority.

I do not believe the umpire is obligated to go above and beyond the rules in dealing with these kinds of issues (especially if that going above and beyond is motivated by some fear of lawyers), but I thought Mike's solution was creative and would be effective in dealing with a situation where the umpire judged there WAS a safety concern that he wanted to deal with.

Obviously, I completely disagree. It IS a safety issue if it is apparent the batters are in danger of being hit by a pitcher which just doesn't have it that game.

In the scenario offered, the coach made it clear that he wasn't concerned about the control and wasn't going to remove the pitcher. My concern isn't the coach's feelings, but the batters. I'm also not talking about 1 or 2 hit batters. I'm talking about more than a half-dozen in a few inning and it being beyond doubt that the pitcher has a problem.

As a 12 yo is being loaded into an ambulance with a broken ankle, arm, torn-up knee after being the 10th batter hit by a pitcher, I would like you to turn to the parents and tell them that is wasn't your issue. I'm not talking about changing or making up rules, but strictly working within the wording of the book. Just because I have $5,000,000 liability insurance doesn't mean I want to test my coverage.

ASA made the "injury above rules" statement when they permitted umpires to stop play and award bases due to an injured player. I don't necessarily care for it, but it places the onus on the umpire to be an authoritive figure on the field when it comes to a player's well being. Telling a jury that you didn't do anything because it isn't covered in a rule book probably will not get you off the hook. If asked for a rule book reference, I would undoubtedly cite 10.1.

Mr. Greene can probably jump in on how it would wash in a courtroom, but to be honest, I don't put that much faith on however many individuals are in the box accepting the "game" over what they would perceive as a common sense move.

JMHO,

I don't agree with your views on an umpire's obligations in these situations.

Stopping play so the proper folks can care for an incapacitated player is completely different from being obligated (legally or morally) to remove an unskilled player because her lack of skill may pose a somewhat increased risk of injury than would a more skilled player.

Speaking ASA, unless we were talking about a real fireball pitcher with no control, I think it is unlikely I would ever use your "make him an offer he can't refuse" approach. However, if the need arose, I think it would be a useful tool.

I didn't say it was an obligation. I consider this a preemptive move. And, BTW, I'm not removing anyone. I'm just giving that coach the opportunity to complete the game. Remember, most ASA rules, including this area, are not age specific.

It is not uncommon to find a girl who can throw the ball a ton, but have no control especially at the younger ages. Control is something that can be taught, but that doesn't mean a pitcher retains that speed which got her noticed. As we all know, control is the key factor in a good pitcher.

As I stated, I don't care for the move, but the powers that be in ASA (Commissioners and Player Reps) enacted a rule which directs the umpire to make a non-medical decision with injured players. I don't see it a far reach from that to what I am suggesting.

BTW, how ironic that today I received a letter from Blue Cross of CA requesting information on the cause of my recent knee surgery. They make no secret that they want the information for the purposes of determing "if Blue Cross of California is entitled to be reimbursed by some other responsible party associated with or involved in an accident." I don't believe you need a law degree to figure out the umpire will be scrutinized should a patient note that the injury or accident occured during a ball game.

As I said before, JMHO,



[Edited by IRISHMAFIA on May 13th, 2004 at 07:03 PM]

Boy this discussion happened at a perfect time for me. I am UIC of a small ASA rec legue. We had an issue earlier this week in 10U where this exact thing happened a 10yo with decent speed for 10 was wild and hit a few girls (depends on who you talk to my PU told me 5-6 in the 3 innings she pitched, other team hit 2 but much slower coaches remeber 10-12 of course no one wrote it correctly in the official book so it's all memory) Anyway I have been approached by SEVERAL coaches and parents, as well as our board president, about what we are going to do about this. My answer was simple we tried a few years ago to put a league rule in like someone else mentioned here 3 in an inning 4 in a game and everyone threw a fit!! But I do feel for these people, some of them have 8 year olds that just came out of coaches pitch and they are scared to death of the "wild speed demon" and don't want to even bat. Add whining parents on top of that are threatening to take their children and leave if she starts hitting players again and it gets ugly fast! I see both sides of it, coaches should pull someone who risks hurting someone, is it a safety concern who knows? We could argue that you could break a rib with a good speed pitch. I know one thing you could scare a kid right out of playing ball again! But I also don't like to force a coach to pull a player unless it is absolutely necessary, and supported by the rules. The problem is I don't think we will ever get a hard fast rule from a governing body to enforce on this topic, I may be wrong but I see it as another judgement thing that is hard to enforce without taking crap from someone!!!