situation: Runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out, 2 strikes on the batter. The pitcher bounces the3 next pitch up to the plate, and the batter squares to bunt. She tips the ball which goes to the catchers glove, then falls to the ground. The batter takes off for 1st, and the catcher over throws F3 allowing R1 and R2 to score and the BR ends up on 2nd.

What's your call, and which coach are you going to share some face time with and what do you say to her.

SamC

Vets (and you know who you are) please hold off with your answers for a couple of hours to allow thr rooks and lurkers a chance to answer. Thanks.

Sam,

I have 2 outs and nobody on base with 2 runs across the plate. Any face time would probably be with the defensive coach, and it would be brief.

I had the batter out on the foul ball bunt attempt with two strikes and a live ball on the overthrow by F2. It's the player's responsibility to know the game situation and the rules.

Of course, I would have yelled the "batter is out" when she bunted foul with two srrikes.

Michael

Aw, shucks... I was already composing my anwer in my head & then I read this!

OK. I'll wait.

PS - I disagree with Michael, but I won't even hint why.

[Edited by Dakota on May 11th, 2004 at 03:01 PM]

I half agree with Michael and Half disagree. I have the batter out on the bunt attempt 3rd strike foul and the runners go back to 2nd and 3rd on the dead ball. The foul was not caught therefore it is a standard foul ball thus dead. So you have runners on 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs, Next batter up and I would prefer no face time with either coach rather lets keep the game moving.

This is actually an easy call. No coach should need "face time" on this play.

But what if the catcher had <i>caught</i> the third strike bunt attempt on the pitch that bounced? What should the umpire call?

THEN I will agree with Michael totally.

Dukat!

Read the original play again.

Dont know if this is what happen on this play but last week had a similiar play where the catcher was playing up and first touched the ball over the HP which made it a fair ball and everybody just stood frozen until 1st base coached figured out why PU was pointing fair and told the BR to run in which she was put out at 1st but the runner from 3rd scored. BUT if not I agree with the other Batter out on attempted 3rd strike bunt foul and put the runners back


Don

I'm just curious about the thread subject "Mini-umpire's Nightmare"
Was this a game that used little umpires?

The obvious answer is: Third strike bunted foul - batter out, return the runners.

Sam... what are you up to???

Does it have something to do with the bounced pitch, or the catcher dropping the ball??

I reread it but apparantly I am missing something. Times up vets enlighten us if we are wrong.

From the subject of this thread, about 4'2" :)

Foul ball = dead ball. Last time I checked, that means nothing more can happen. And, oh yeah, the batter is out.

That was my reply at first then the scenario came up where it was caught and not dropped.

Speaking ASA and probably other associations. If the ball went directly from the bat to the catchers mitt, even it it hit the ground first (bounced to the plate), I have a foul tip caught for the third strike and an out. Live ball. If batter takes off to first and catcher tries to throw her out then runners can score. Defense should know what is going on.

Yes, but I hate it when people ride on others' threads instead of creating a new one.

It dilutes the discussion and often confuses the participants.

Have I waited long enough?

(Actually, I had a HS game yesterday afternoon and a busy evening, so I'm coming back in late...)

Anyway, getting back to the original scenario, I see the call has been resolved.

An "uncaught foul tip" (to coin a term) is just an ordinary foul ball. Dead ball. Bunt attempt.

Batter out. Runners return.

The pitch in the dirt was a red herring. Once the batter hit the pitch with the bat, it became a batted ball.

So the obvious call was correct - I thought I was missing something. :D

Okay, as most of the old guys on the board can testify to, I like to post "situations" on the board which I call Umpire's Nightmwres because they appear to be complicated but which are usually fairly simple if you app;u the basic rules and ignore all of the red herrings.

In this case, as others have stated, since the batter tipped the ball which was not caught, all you have is a foul ball and since the batter was attempting to bunt with 2 strikes the batter is out and the runners return. Now if she just had not tipped the ball, you would have two runs and a runner on 2nd.

And now to hijack my own thread, suppose the catcher had caught the tipped ball and instead of throwing the ball into right field, she had plunked the batter on the helmet causing the ball to go over the fence?

SamC

That'd depend on the B/R's actions. Did she do anything to intentionally interfere?? Catcher should have been aware of the situation and not thrown.

Either INT - R1 (at 3rd base) out, or Dead Ball - 2 base award.

But what if the catcher had caught the third strike bunt attempt on the pitch that bounced? What should the umpire call?


um a pitch that bounced is not a caught third strike.

just a thought

To quote myself...

Once it hits the bat - the bounce doesn't matter anymore. If the ball goes from the bat directly to the mitt and the ball is subsequently caught - it's a foul tip - live ball. Any way you count it, the batter is out.

sorry didnt read into it far enough, forgot about the ball being tipped, i thought you ment batter made an offer at the ball, my bad

I dont think the second scenario of this question was answered yet pertaining to a foul tip.If the ball was a foul tip going directly into the catchers glove and caught,we have the batter out,but the ball remains alive.If F2 doesnt know the situation and fires the ball over the head of F3,the runners can advance.
Jeff