When I was coaching I always hated it when my brother would call one of our games because I was convinced he was "over-compensating" and being biased by trying not to be biased. Now that I have moved over I am glad that the only players that play softball in my family are my daughters who I am not allowed to call anyway thus never have to get in that situation. I guess my question now becomes if you are scheduled for a game with a relative (not living with you) as a coach or player, do you try to reschedule or do you see no inherent problem with this situation?

While it doesn't fit your question exactly (the "not living with you" part), I have been scheduled several times to call my daughter's games - both her school team and her travel team. I have always rescheduled / swapped assignments.

The reason I threw in the "Not living with you" part is here we are not allowed to call a game with a relative living in the same house as you. As a matter of fact they had a Fed State playoff baseball game a couple of years ago from my daughter's school (And the one I graduated from) appealed and replayed and the umpire suspended because the PU was the father of a kid on the team.

The Fed assigner here in NJ will not let you work any school that your son or daughter attends, whether your kid is on the team to be officated or not.

Even so, I did my daughter's JV game once. Had she been on the varsity, I would have told the assigner to switch me.

I often did her rec games, and the main problem was with her, not opponents. She always claimed I was too hard on her. She might have been right. Maybe I was subconsciously trying to be sure I didn't favor her.

Calling a game with your daughter on the team is not allowed here, either. Where I have been assigned to my DD's team it was usually inadvertent. I did have an assignor once, though, who just plain didn't want to be bothered keeping track of it, and told me if I wanted games, then I would have to deal with the issue on my own. So, I did.

That is part of my point, How can you stay impartial? It always seemed to me that in trying to stay impartial you end up as you stated being subconciously biased against.

When I started umpiring in the 60s, my first ejection was my brother. It wasn't because I was overcompensating. He thought he could get away with being a smarta$$ because I was his brother and would get away with it. Wrong! This was an 8-team league with only 3 umpires, so there was no scheduling around it. The entire league was well aware of the situation and the issue was never raised.

A few years back, another brother started playing softball and I ended up working a few of his games. In our area, we are assigned to fields and sometimes you are unaware of what teams are there. Once again, all participants were aware of the situation and no one had a problem with it.

Of course, the situation should be avoided if possible, but if it comes down to me working or no game, I'm working the game assigned.

It really doesn't bother me. You all know how anal I am about the game and the rules. I just see someone in a uniform.

That could be it too as when I was coaching the only big confrontations I ever had was when he was calling. He never threw me out but the last game we had where I was coach and he umpire he more than likely should have :) Funny thing is now, when our schedules allow it, we get to be partners. Our sister made us promise to not talk situations at the dinner table during Christmas.

Mike: You say you only see the uniform but even so does your brother ever accuse you of being subconsiously biased against by trying not to be biased?

When I started umpiring (13–15 league) in 1965, my brother played. But there were only 4 teams and just 2 umpires. Not easy to schedule around that.

I have no more relatives playng the game, so I don't have to worry about it. I have called twice with partners who had daughters or grnad daughters on the field. Both times, I took the plate, they had the bases and we asked the coaches before entering the field if it would be a problem. Fortunately, both my partners' reputations were so good, no one objected.

I have called a team whose coach was the other coach on my teams when we won Nationals. He hated to see me come on the field, because he knew he wasn't gonna get a break for anything. But he knew it was because everyone knew we had coached toghether for years. He was OK with it, he just told the girls they'd have to earn the win tonite. Of course, the parents weren't cheering me on when I walked on the field.
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/jump.gif

Rick

[Edited by TexBlue on Jan 15th, 2004 at 05:27 PM]

Twice when my daughter was playing varsity, I ended up umpiring her games, because of officials being a no show. Her coach would approach the other team and let them know that his pitcher's father was an umpire, and if they agreed, he could have at least one certified umpire on the field within minutes. Otherwise, they would have to reschedule the game and the visiting team would have to make the long drive back again. Both times the opposing coach agreed.

As for calling the game, I had no problem with either side. I only had to work one game behind the plate for my daughter; the other time while I was working the JV game another (scheduled) official showed up.

However, I do understand the reasons for not wanting a relative to officiate another relative's games. In all honesty, I would much rather have been just a softball dad the two times this did happen.

Whoah ho!

greymule sitting on 1,000 posts!!! Way to go!

When I started playing FP, my father was an umpire. I hated it when he was working my games. I was always out on first. Mostly for not walking the 1-meter line after a bunt (then my best weapon)...
He must have been over compensating. Both my brother and I in one team, and everybody knowing he's the father. For me it was horrible.
Now I'am the umpire (never worked together with my dad, and I think I'm glad with that..) and have a son (almost 2 years ols). I know now this; I might be his coach, but will never ever be his umpire!

Nope. The brother I tossed told me that he thought he could get away with a little more because he was my brother. IOW, he assumed I would be biased. He was wrong.

Never had any problems with my other brother. I had been doing it so long, he just assumed when I did or said something, I was right and told his teammates that. Go figure.

I think it matters a whole lot what level of ball we're talking about when thinking about relatives & home location & all that.

Many years ago, I think I was 17 & in my 3rd or 4th year of umpiring, I umpired a church league game that my father was playing in. As he slid into 3rd on the back end of a triple, I saw and heard his leg snap. After the ambulance cam, I finished the game, but swore I'd not do another game when family was playing. Today, I live in an area that I did not grow up in, but I know several of the local high school players and coaches. I try not to work their games during the playoffs - just because I live in the same town. I never had any kids in the local school district - we were into having ours attend a school associated with our church. I don't want anyone to have the opportunity to say anything about bias. And yet, as the top rated umpire in the district, I am usually assigned to the top games, so I do see the local team. I'm very careful on & near the field. The same for the local colle team - they are perenially ranked in the top 5 in the country. I work out with them during the indoor pre-season.

[Edited by Steve M on Jan 16th, 2004 at 06:36 PM]

What about good friends?
 

I don't have this problem in softball...

But I coach baseball and have made many friends, some close ones, through coaching with them or coaching their kids. Then, in the winter, I referee football, and in peewee or junior high I often have one team I don't know at all and the other team I know every single kid by name, along with coaches I'm friends with.

In general, the kids seem to like me out there, but the coaches don't. Wonder why? :)

<b>As [my father] slid into 3rd on the back end of a triple, I saw and heard his leg snap.</b>

So is he suing everyone and everything in sight, including you?

There was a case like that years ago around here. One friend sued another over an injury from an accidentally thrown bat. Their friendship didn't suffer, as I guess it was only inssurance money at stake.

PS. The double "s" in the last line is not a typo. Every time I tried to type in that word, it produced a hyperlink. Is that happening to anyone else?

I think the issue of relatives come up more in fast pitch than slow pitch. Problem I see with some of the slow pitch leagues is you never know who's playing on those teams. I've worked games that involved people I went to college with, even though that college is a 2 hour drive away. Ditto for some old high school chums, and that's an hour and a half away. Guess it can't be avoided in a big city.

I agree. I think that in SP nobody cares much about relatives or friends here or there. In fact, I routinely umpire contests in which guys who played with, against, and for me compete.

Our association covers two counties plus parts of two others. Most of the guys grew up around here, so they're naturally going to know a lot of the players.

NOTE: Somebody help me out! I tried to type the word g-a-m-e-s, but once again I produced a hyperlink. Apparently my posts fill with link codes on certain words.

games
insurance

Hmmm... no problem here.

If you're using Microsoft Internet Explorer, go to VIEW and click STATUS BAR (if it is not already checked).

Then type your problem words into a message post and do a "preview reply" -- float your mouse pointer over the link in the preview window and look in the status line to see what web address it is linking you to. That may give you a clue what is going on.

<a href="http://get-faster.com?go=<a href="http://get-certified.net?go=insurance" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: insurance';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">insurance</a>" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: <a href="http://go-acct.com?go=insurance" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: insurance';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">insurance</a>';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''"><a href="http://get-data.net?go=insurance" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: insurance';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">insurance</a></a>
<a href="http://get-faster.com?go=<a href="http://get-faster.com?go=games" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: games';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">games</a>" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: <a href="http://000info.com?go=games" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: games';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">games</a>';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''"><a href="http://get-faster.com?go=games" onmouseover="window.status = 'goto: games';return 1" onmouseout="window.status=''">games</a></a>

Thanks for the assistance, Dakota. One word creates the following link:

h t t p : / / get-certified . net/? go = g a m e s

The other word creates a corresponding link.

I see that other links sometimes appear, too. Somebody's worm or something got into my computer. I'll try updating Norton Antivirus and then running it.

Whatever it is keeps removing my password, too.

You might have been infected by adbot-like advertizing software. In addition to Norton, (if that doesn't cure it), try this:

http://www.safer-networking.org/

That is the website for Spybot Search & Destroy, a free program that will remove advertizing software from your computer.

Thank you, Dakota.

Your help, plus my son's facility with the protection programs, got rid of the infection, and apparently hundreds of others.

It was a recent infection. He had to get the latest updates to apply the "cure."

Death penalty for malicious hackers.

About 20 years ago my dad showed up to watch my high school game.(baseball) For some reason they didn't have an ump and he ended up stuck behind the plate with me pitching. As I remember it nobody had any problems with any calls.(including me) He had done a few other games I was in but would never do the plate incase I ended up pitching. Brian

In my town we use a single umpire because of the budget.
Due to a lack of umpires i was told to umpire a game against my own team that i was a pitcher on.
Well needless to say,I was a bum all the way around.
I called my first baseman coming home from third out at the plate on a slide for the last play of a 7th inning 6 to 5 run game and didnt bat an eye.He was out. Game over.
Fortunately I have a great coach and he showed his approval but to this day my firstbaseman swears he was safe.lol
All in fun.
pops
peace

For the most part it should be avoided, even at the youngest levels. However, that's not always possible. My daughter is on the HS varsity team now, and I recused myself from all of her team's games. When she was a 10-year old Little Leaguer, I did a few, and I'd love to be able to forget the looks she gave me for called third strikes. Unfortunate circumstances led to me being the "team ump" when she was 12, but I never had to call one. With 2 strikes she either struck out or hit anything close.

When my son played minors, 8-10, I was asked a few times to do his game because they just did not have anyone else. I would get both managers and tell them 1) my son was on the team; 2) he struggles at the plate; 3) I won't call strikes on him, if he doesn't swing he'll walk; 4) if the opposing coach has a hitter who struggles, I'll give him the same consideration; and 5) I understand if this is unacceptable, and they can get someone else to do it. In this, my terms were non-negotiable. They always accepted, and it always worked out well.

As a LL assignor, I would permit it only as a last resort, and even then I told the umpire not to be hard on his son to prove he was not biased - it just isn't fair to his son. Better to go the other way, if priorities are set properly.

Mike

The worst situation I had like this was when coaching basketball (CYM) and no refs showed up. As I was also a ref, I was pressured into refereeing the game. Fortunately, I was able to get the assistant coach of the other team to "help" even though he wasn't a ref. We made it through, but with lots of tension.

Not old enough to have children playing, but I have umpired for my OLDER sister before...not a fun time, but both teams were okay with it.

More likely than not, I end up with this situation: Umpiring high school/college games for schools that have one or more player that I have UMPIRED with. Usually I'll call the two schools ahead of time to see if it is okay with them and then I'll adjust if needed. I umpire 300 fastpitch games a year so I'm quite known (good or bad). It's hard not to do a game where someone on either team doesn't know me...I'm sure it's the same for many of you out there.

I have to tell this story...
 

...and even though it was a baseball game, it fits on this topic.

A few years ago, I got a call from a high school needing an emergency fill-in. I taught at the high school that the home team was playing. I also had a couple of nephews that played for the at which I taught. I made sure the school A.D. knew this, and he said he nor the head coach had problems with this, so I took the game.

I called my wife before I left for the game letting her know where I would be that evening. Her response, and I'm not joking, was "Are you going to ride the team bus to the game?" She was dead serious when she asked that! I had to explain to her that it might be a good idea to not do that.