USA Softball Council Meetings
 

Anyone heard anything from the USA Softball Council Meetings? Rule changes?

Can't answer about the meetings, but rumor has it that USA is going to change the Illegal Pitch penalty to just a ball on the batter (which will align with NCAA and NFHS).

I've also heard that they are going to allow the pitcher to do something with their stride foot. Either they'll allow the pitcher to get onto the plate to receive the signal with the stride foot touching or behind the plate (like NCAA and PONY are doing next year) or allow the pitcher to step back and then step forward while delivering the pitch (like NFHS). I've heard two different people say it's the latter, but until I see the actual rule language, I'm hedging my bets that it's the former.

Wouldn't it be nice if any change has exactly the same wording, so there is no interpretation/application confusion?

I guarantee that USA will not make any rule about the stride foot . . . now the NON-PIVOT FOOT.

Yes, I'm being that guy. NCAA is the only rule code that calls the non-pivot foot the "stride foot." USA/NFHS/WBSC use pivot foot and non-pivot foot.

Maybe, just maybe, there isn't two pitching preliminary rules now.

Is that just your hope, a proposal, or an actual change?

I am not one to confirm or deny, but (insert wink here)

I'm simply referring to the foot that the pitcher strides with. I'm not quoting what a particular rule book calls it. And, quite frankly, it's a misnomer to refer to that foot as the "non-pivot" foot because the pitcher can legally pivot with that foot during her delivery. ;)

USA defines the pivot foot as "(fast pitch)The foot which must remain in contact with the pitcher's plate prior to pushing off." (Rule 1 - pivot foot). The other foot is the "non-pivot foot", which is referred to in rule 6(a) 1 c 1 (6a 1 c 2 is now removed) and in rule 6 2 H and I. So yes, words do have meaning.

NCAA introduced the term "stride foot" a few years ago. I'm not sure when, but I see this as really just wanting to be different. Probably around the time when a pitcher "goofy-footed" and everyone wondered if that was legal.

As to your semantic word play, yes, a pitcher can "pivot" on the non-pivot foot, but not in any motion or definition of the pitch. The same way Ross pivots the couch going up the stairs.

The playing rule changes for USA Softball are now available:

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Softball...-SB/Governance

Of note to this thread:


This is the same as the NFHS rule. However, this is different than 2020-2021 NCAA, which does not allow any movement backwards after the pitcher position has been set.

And while we are at it:

This aligns with NCAA and NFHS.

Good job, Slick !! :cool:

Every rule set except NFHS moved away from the step back years and years ago, why in the world would USA move back to it??????

For NFHS, "in Rule 1-5-1, the USA Softball All Games certification mark is now acceptable on bats"

Rule 3, Section 1A [1]: The official bat must bear either the ASA 2000, ASA 2004, ASA 2013 or the new approved USA Softball Certification Marks.
Comment: Adds two additional USA Softball Certification Marks to the list of Certification Marks allowed on approved bats.

The mark for "All Games" would apply.

The bat certification marks mentioned above are identified as "All Games" or "Adult FP & Slow Pitch"

Rule 3, Section 3A: The official softball must bear either the ASA Certification Marks, or the new USA Softball Certification Marks allowed on approved softballs. Comment: Adds USA Softball Certification Marks to the list of approved Certification Marks allowed on softballs.

There is a circular mark and a diamond shaped mark.
https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Softball...684E38AB3&_z=z

Which ball Certification Marks are for which games?

NOTE: These are for USA games, not NFHS or NCAA.

Playing that game we all played as children, Follow the Leader

USA technically never 'moved away' from the step back. That has been the men's rule for as long as I've been around (circa 1997). I think this is just a matter of not writing two separate preliminaries for genders. And to my knowledge, NFHS has not required two feet on (well, since 2000).

NCAA made the change this year for only one foot on, but they adopted the WBSC rule for preliminaries on the feet. That includes no step back once the feet are set.

But since the USA Male rule is the same as NFHS (in totality since 2016, once NFHS allowed the step back once the hand came together), USA just opened the preliminaries to all fast pitch.

It really isn't that big of a deal.

Now the big deal is when NCAA (and NFHS, and USA Jo/females) allows leaping, which is legal in WBSC.

1936 - Both feet need to stay in contact until the delivery

I have a different theory that may be totally out of whack. But maybe USA made the move to attract more fast pitch players to participate in USA travel ball. By allowing the step-back, there may be more pitchers who opt to play travel because they now can pitch as they would during the high school season.

Seriously, this, to me, was a fix to something that wasn't broken. I've never heard anyone in any USA-related event (tournaments, clinics, meetings, etc.) clamor that they wanted the women's fast-pitch rule to align with the men's rule. So if that's really the only reason why they went that way, I think it's dumb. My suspicions tell me there's another underlying motivation that may be related to attracting more girls to the organization, now that there's so many other options out there (USSSA, PGF, NSA, USFA, etc.)

It has everything to do with aligning rules across other organizations and nothing to do with men's FP (I would venture to say that a high percentage of players, coaches and umpires in the travel ball world have never watched a MFP game, much less know the rules are different for pitching). The change at the WBSC level (2018) influenced NCAA, with the coach of team USA lobbying for international pitching rule in NCAA (as you might know, leaping was a proposal for NCAA this year). The rest of the world plays WBSC rules, so I think it is a competitive disadvantage to have a pitching rule that is different.

NFHS has always been a "lone wolf" if you will, as they do not consider themselves as feeder programs for either NCAA or summer ball.

But it is curious why the change happened at the same time as NCAA. Knowing how submitted the proposal would probably shed some light on the subject (and I do not know that answer). I would like to know how close the vote was.

Okay, maybe it's just me, but it sounds like you're providing conflicting arguments. :p And USA admits in their press release that this rule change was made to align both the male and female pitching rule.

Whatever the real reason, I was okay with the first rule change that allows the pitcher to set up for the signal with the non-pivot foot on or behind the plate. It does bring USA in line with NFHS, NCAA (which also changed to this for next year) and WBSC. I like the consistency. But then to throw in the step-back to align only with NFHS (I doubt NCAA or WBSC will ever allow that) just seems like, well, a step back (no pun intended) in their thinking.

Claiming that they did it to align male and female play is not a compelling enough argument for me. If that's their rationale, they should've just gone all in and allow leaping as well, in my opinion.

Be careful how you quote. What I said is not conflicting. One, the person who proposed this rule change was (IMO) not thinking about men's FP. It was more "the others are doing it, so let's not be the odd one out." That's my first statement.

My second statement pretty much backs up the the USA Rationale but is separate than the first statement, because it has to do what you mentioned: why allow the step back (prior, during or after the hands come together) like NFHS but not like NCAA/WBSC? (My statement): because the rule already existed and IF making this change, not to have two different preliminaries; (USA - paraphrasing): with the rule change, there is alignment with male/female preliminaries. The change makes then alignment, but was not the reason for the change. If I were a chemist (I am not), I would say that alignment of the genders was not the catalysis; I would said that a) proposed change --> b) what should we allow JO/females to do? --> c) we already have a rule, so lets make them the same. Ergo, the rules now align.

As for allowing leaping -- My opinion (and my opinion only): I'm sure it was discussed, as it was in NCAA (I did see the proposals in NCAA). I think baby steps, one change at a time. There are a lot of traditionalists, and change is sometimes hard. Something big creates change, and I am on the front end of two big men's changes:
1. 2003, men were not allowed to leap. I got, ahem, "corrected" at my first men's national. 2004 rule change allowed men to leap.
2. 2017 WBSC men's championship: both feet had to be on the PP to start. Because of that tournament, the rule was changed in 2018.
Both of these were due to the PLAYERS initiating the rule changes. JO really doesn't have that, because the players really don't have that much say. That's more of a coach thing, and they propose things like EP's and OFFO's (offense only, which is used at the JO cup).

I think we will see leaping allowed at the NCAA level in 2022 and NFHS/USA either in 2021 or 2022. I would take odds, but that would be a conflict of interest.

Well, I'm looking at it differently. IMO, it was an act meant to make the game easier for more people to play.

Not better, not more competitive, not more impressive, just easier. As previously noted, just my opinion.

That's always been the party line at NFHS when asked why they allow it, and it made sense to me. There are quite a few high schools where decent softball pitchers are at a premium, and any little help the rules can provide to allow for more players to get the ball into the strike zone is a plus for those teams.

It always makes me shake my head when someone argues NFHS isn't preparing pitchers for college ball by allowing them to step back. Well, for one, NFHS has never been touted as a feeder program for NCAA ball. And, two, those high school pitchers who are aspiring to play in college aren't being forced to take a step back. It's simply an option for those girls who prefer to pitch that way.

In my area, I'd estimate that 95% of the high school pitchers that I've observed tend to start with both feet in contact with the pitcher's plate. I think they've learned it that way so they'd be legal for either NFHS or USA Softball.

Every once in a while with a HS pitcher who starts with only 1 foot on the plate, a coach will ask about it, thinking it's illegal. At that point I have to take my hat off to see which sanction I'm working that day.

As I've stated before, I only work the 2 sanctions. Consistency between/among the various alphabets would be most helpful. We have some guys that do college ball and try to bring some of those rules to the HS game.

In my neck, those pitchers who do start with a foot behind the plate and/or take a step back during their delivery are few and far between as well. Typically, the smaller schools that have a hard time fielding teams will have pitchers that do all kinds of weird stuff to pitch.

Not much of a HS coach if you ask me. They should know better.

And those umpires should know better as well! Geez...

The coaches who do this fall into a couple of categories. First, they truly don't know the rule that well and are more likely sub-varsity coaches. Second, they know the rule perfectly but are just testing the crew.

As to "those umpires", don't they know everything?! That's the vibe I get frequently. Me? I'm not young enough to know it all.