4 Umpire Mechanics?
 

NCAA has opened the option for 4-man crews for next year's post-season. Say I want to try a little 4-man in Daddy Ball for S&G's...as I'm not likely to work any D1 postseason soon.

Is this just 3 man mechanics + 1? Here's what I expect (having never seen a 4-man manual):

• Ball hit to the infield: Everyone stays in position.
• Ball hit to RF: U1 chases, U2 slides to the gap and covers 1B/2B; everyone follows counter-rotated 3-man mechanics. (Does HP take the tagup at 1B?)
• Ball hit to CF: U2 chases, U1 slides to the gap; everyone follows counter-rotated 3-man mechanics. (U1 has tag at 1B/2B)
• Ball hit to LF: U3 chases, PU moves to 3B, U1 rotates home, U2 slides to the gap; everyone follows counter-rotated 3-man mechanics. (PU has tag at 3B, U2 has tag at 1B/2B?)

Teebob,
I just got my CAA manual and disappointed that 4 umpire system is not a part of the manual. Having said that, there is a 4 umpire system listed in both the NFHS and USA Softball manuals, but it is listed as only one page, basically: if someone goes out, revert to the 3 umpire system.

WBSC has a 4 umpire system posted on their website (it is public). But this doesn't strictly follow the philosophy of NFHS/USA mechanics.

For my state high school association, I have created an extensive guide for both 3 and 4 umpire system that follow the basic philosophy of the 2 umpire system (which is the base system for USA and NFHS). As you say, the 3 umpire system is "2 + 1" and the 4 umpire system is "3 + 1".

If you want my opinion, following the "2 + 1 + 1" philosophy:
Yes. As a trainer and evaluator, it is difficult to get U3 to just stay still or take a step or two into a calling position. Too many want to buttonhook on a ball into the infield, or mirror a call at first (the 45*).

Umpire movement is as you say, U2 has both 1st and 2nd, U3 and PU holds. U2 is responsible for any play at first -- think this way: in 2 umpire, who has plays at first? Answer: the base umpire. In NFHS/USA three umpire, if U1 chases, who has the call at first? Answer: the remaining base umpire (U3).
Note: here is your difference with NCAA mechanics, as 3 umpire mechanics is the NCAA "base" and there is a different philosophy.

Note 2: U2 starting position is always on the first base side of second base, even with a runner on second. This provides U2 the ability to cover 1st if necessary. At one time (ISF), U2 was rotated over with a runner on second, but that is no longer. It will be interesting to see how NCAA handles this with the change in the 3 umpire system, rotated starting position.

No, U3 fills the vacated spot of U2 - and takes 1st (if necessary) when U1 vacates by rotating home. Umpires rotate: U1 rotates to plate when a runner passes 2nd; PU rotates up to third. Basically, you fill the empty space in front of you. Communication is the key.

Yes, but I would not call that "counter-rotated" mechanics. There is a rotation, so this (and when U2 chases) is more like following the rotated started position from 3 umpire.

Worked my first championship play 4 & 6 umpire games in 1996 @ Men's A Industrial. Not as difficult as some want to make it, but each umpire must know their partners' responsibility.

If you start with the thought that U2 & U3 share the responsibilities depending upon which goes out, it is mostly designed like 3-umpire mechanics. There is a bit more to it, but that can be a starting point.

That's a lot of blues. Tongue-in-cheek pregame as PU: U1/2/3; don't move. UL/UR; chase on your side of the outfield. I got the plate. Have fun everyone. Beers at the hotel in 2 hours. Andy's buying. :D

RE ball to LF:

Mis-type. I was copying and pasting. I meant "regular" rotated with U1 coming home.

RE ball to CF: I understand the concept here...as umpires we always rotate "left" against the flow of the runners...but to me it just seems simpler to have U1 drift between 1B/2B (a la 2-man) while U3 and PU stay home. (This is why I don't write umpire manuals.) :)

I just looked in the latest NFHS and USA Softball umpire manuals, and I didn't see anything mentioned regarding four-umpire mechanics. Perhaps the older manuals had them when four-man was recognized back then?

I doubt it. Don't ever remember seeing 4-umpire mechanics in a published manual except for ISF/WBSC

I may be a bit mistaken. I'm looking at a 2015 ASA manual and the page I remember isn't there. NFHS manual used to have the same one page, showed a diagram of the foul umpires between innings.

But there wasn't anything else beside: revert to a 3 umpire system when an umpire chases. I'll look at the fed manual later.

The "missing page"
 

See, I am not imagining anything:
http://il-ssoa.com/pdfs/2010-2011-Umpires-Manual.pdf

Ok, I found this online, from the 2010-2011 NFHS mechanics manual. Pages 71 - 72 (is this enough citation for copyright issues?). This EXACT page used to exist in the ASA mechanics manual, but I'm not sure when it was removed (I don't keep old copies, but I just happened to have a 2015 version, and this page isn't there):

FOUR-UMPIRE SYSTEM —
FAST PITCH AND SLOW PITCH

The four-umpire system provides an umpire at every base, allowing for the best possible coverage for force or tag plays at each base, or on outfield fly balls.
With the four-umpire system, one of the three base umpires will always go to the outfield on each fly ball or line drive hit over any infielder’s head. The second base umpire is responsible for the outfield area from the left to the right fielder. He/she will spend more time in the outfield observing possible trapped balls or balls near the fence which may bounce over (under) or go over on the fly, than he/she will in making calls at second base. The first base umpire is responsible for all balls hit between the right fielder and the dead-ball line, and the third base umpire is responsible for all balls hit between the left fielder and the dead-ball line. (note: there is a diagram of the "chase zone/areas").

When any of the umpires go out, the remaining three umpires revert to a three umpire system of coverage as previously covered. This is true not only for tag ups on all fly balls, but also for all force out or tag plays in the infield. Remember, when a base umpire goes out on a play to the outfield, he/she should ALWAYS stay out until all play has ceased.

Between-inning mechanics are the same as the three-umpire system with the second base umpire staying in the out field area (Figure 34 - which is a diagram of the between innings locations: U2 just "north" of second, U3 and U1 off their respective foul lines).

How did I get thrown in here...????

Dude, nobody "throws" you anywhere.

Who cares, as long as he is buying anything that isn't "Lite"

SUP has just released the four umpire manual. I would not use this manual and the concepts for anything level lower than NCAA.

I don’t think we’d have to worry about that since I don’t believe any other softball organization uses 4-man anymore.

Well, maybe LL does. I know they go with 6-man for many of their higher-level tournaments. :rolleyes:

We use 4 umpires for the PIAA (PA state) high school tournament for 4 rounds, and some districts (of which there are 12 in PA) use 4 for championship game.

WBSC uses for 4 umpires as a standard crew, 6 for the finals. Actually, we used an 8 umpire crew on the finals, but one umpire only took substitutions and another umpire was on the pitch clock.

The new NCAA 4 umpire mechanics do not resemble the WBSC 4 umpire mechanics. That's all I'll say about that.

Are you implying that NCAA is non-conforming? :eek: Tsk Tsk :D

I'm saying that IMO (and really, my option plus $1 gets you a cup of coffee at Sheetz, but you have to bring your own mug) the CAA 4 umpire mechanics are written for a small group of individuals and do not generalize to the larger world of fastpitch softball.

4 Man in High school
 

During H S playoff season occasionally coaches ask for 4 umpires. We tell them it doesn't work in Softball with the small infield and furthermore if it was better NCAA World series would use 4. There goes that excuse!

You could always tell them that NFHS does not have 4 umpire mechanics! Of course that is if you aren't one of the handful of states that do not use NFHS mechanics.

The "larger world of fastpitch softball" doesn't use 4-man. Yes, you mentioned WBSC, but that's just one organization. I would also include in that "larger world" USA Softball, NFHS, USSSA, NSA, PONY, and all the other variants of women's fast pitch. None of those others in the "larger world" have changed.

Sure, there are "rogue" high school associations that, for whatever reason, want to use four umpires in certain post-season championships. But where do they go to get their approved four-man mechanics? Certainly not the NFHS Softball Umpires Manual.

Same with USA Softball. You won't see a National Tournament use four umpires. At least not now; maybe things will change now that NCAA went there. There may be some local associations that go with four-man, but they, too, are flying by the seat of their Fechheimers when it comes to mechanics.

I attended an NCAA meeting last week, and there was discussion of four-man starting out in the bigger conferences to prep for post-season. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes beyond that pretty soon, moving into the smaller conferences and lower divisions.

Need a lot more
 

I am just wondering where all these umpires will come from.

That's exactly my point. The new 4 umpire mechanics should not be used in any of your mentioned organizations. The new mechanics have non-traditional conventions that are not part of the philosophy or standard mechanics in any organization, including the WBSC that use 4 umpire as their standard.

Two points:
1- As I posted, there was formally a page for 4 umpire mechanics. It was removed.
2 - The high school organizations would have to then create their own mechanics system. PIAA (PA) has created their own 4 umpire mechanics guide that very much mirrors the WBSC system with some slight modifications. I am highly familiar with the PIAA four umpire mechanics :cool:.

Ohio also uses 4 umpires, as we have seen in the famous obstruction video. I'm not sure what they follow, but some clues on that play indicate a former version of the ISF four umpire system.

a - 2002, 18 Gold. I worked a 4 umpire system on a winner's final game (loser's semi, loser's final and championship game all 4 umpires); 2005, women's major, championship game and scheduled IF game assigned 4 umpires. I have friends who have worked 4 umpires in modified nationals ("back in the day"). It was more common, but has become rare.

b - ASA used to have the one page 4 umpire mechanics as well (it was the same as the federation book that I posted earlier in this thread). Maybe it will come back, or at least the WBSC version as USA Softball trains more umpires for WBSC certification. I received my WBSC certification at a USA (ASA) national and worked two games at that national with the 4 umpire system, albeit the WBSC system.

Correct, some conferences are going to use 4 umpires for conference games. I think that is a good idea, as I have mentioned, the system does not rely on the standard concepts and conventions that we have been trained or are accustomed.

I highly doubt that the DII or DIII will ever see 4 umpires, even for post season play. This is a money issue, as how many DII or DIII conferences have three umpires for conference play?

As previously noted, already done