Parent Involvement in Fed ???
 

Gentlemen,

My interpreter and I have are having a friendly debate over this one. I have over the years have disallowed parents catching their daughter who is pitching upon arrival on the field. Whether they are catching them prior to the start of the game, between innings on the side or even taking a few pitches behind the plate to help "speed the game up" as the catcher gets her gear on. I feel as those it is a liability if the parent throws the ball back and were to hit another girl in the face. ( I know that is extreme but trying to show the liability side ).

Lacrosse referees don't let fathers warm up the goalies and this doesn't happen in baseball. Just trying to get the brotherhood thoughts. My rules interpreter doesn't think there is a rule set to validate my thought process.

There is no rule about who may warm up the pitcher other than if it is a youth doing so they must wear an approved catchers helmet.

Why on earth would you care who a player plays catch with before a game? During? Ok, I can see that, especially a school game. But before?

Here's my opinion as a coach over the years. Before the game during warm-ups--let the parent catch. I'm glad for the help. Between innings--the parent also needs to be one of the designated coaches. If a coach hits a player inadvertently with the ball, it should be covered.

As long as they are sanctioned by the school, they are pretty much self-insured as this is basically a school activity. But coach is correct, it must be someone recognized by the school as a member of the staff.

However, I still don't see where that is an umpire's concern.

Scrounge,

I will admit it one of my pet peeves about softball. I feel as though of all the hs sports and I officiate baseball, basketball and soccer that high school softball has a "parks and rec" approach by administration / coaches at time. Dad will walk into the "dugout area" and show Suzie how to swing the bat. Some weekend "club" coach will give the head coach some advice during the game ( especially if coach isn't a teacher at the school).

Ever see a soccer goalie have his dad warm him up, a field hockey goalie by her mother, a dad under the basketball while Johnny jacks up 3's in the pre game???

I also on occasion have had to tell a parent he couldn't coach 1st base in a girls JV softball game. He didn't take the care and prevention course offered by our county and the background check as well.

I think the reason you see a difference is because pitching a softball is one of the most difficult things to learn in athletics. As a result, most of those girls have a private pitching coach that isn't necessarily on the field as a regular team coach. As a result, the responsibility of warming up the pitcher falls to the parent who hauls their daughter to every pitching lesson and learns the mechanics themselves. They become the "other pitching coach". I'll be very honest--unless the head coach has a daughter who pitches or they pitched themselves in their younger days, they are usually the least likely person to coach that pitcher. As a result, you see the "parks and recs" look on the field during warm-ups when it comes to the pitcher. Just my opinion after watching it happen for years.

Just curious....is it a responsibility of the umpires in your area to verify that anybody coaching a team has taken these courses?

Yes, softball is often an after thought and females are often seen as second class athletes. :(

My daughter pitches and fortunately she's had coaches on her travel teams who were college pitchers.

I've seen too many coaches whose only input to the process was "Throw strikes!" Really helpful.

Technically no....at the varsity level this is never an issue. Several of our coaching staffs have been there for years But at least once a year at the JV level, I will see a parent get up out of their lawn chair and walk
into the 1st base coaching box. At that point I will ask the HC if that person has gone through the county care and prevention. If they haven't I will politely walk over and explain why they can't coach. All except one about 10 years ago understood why they couldn't be there. Most JV programs in our area only have 1 "coach".

Rich,

Your post took me back 25 years just before I became an umpire. I was coaching youth softball and my daughter was on the team. She was a first baseman but for some reason I had her pitch this one game. She was striking out people when she was throwing strikes but there were a lot of balls thrown in there also. I remember hollering out from the dugout to throw strikes. I guess she must have heard it a few too many times. After telling her probably one too many times she turns to me from the circle and says "what do you think I am trying to do". Yup, one smart kid! Got me thinking in a whole new way. :eek: :)

Every time I hear that now when I am on the field I think back to those days. I also want to say to the coach, maybe you should show her what she needs to correct with her mechanics........

Had a JV double header once and a mother brought 5 pizzas at the end of the 1st game for the girls to eat between games. Coach couldn't stand her parents and asked me to start next game immediately. The pizzas remained untouched....coach and I loved it. Parent wrote a letter to AD and AD supported coaches decision 100%...it was the best day of the year.

That got me to thinking about this a bit. Back when my son was playing baseball in his early teens, there were a few occasions where I was asked to be the base umpire. This was well before I started umpiring softball. I clearly wasn't certified in anything except lawn chair mechanics.

Moving forward a couple of decades, there are more requirements for coaches and umpires. But I've also done many a game where a team member served as a first base coach. I can't believe they're certified in anything either, but yet permitted as long as they wear a helmet.

Just thinkin'...

Multiple Sports has a couple of decent points. We happen to work the same high school circuit and I do know that the head of county athletics doesn’t want unqualified parents being involved with the in game coaching (unless they are part of the staff). Point is how do I know if they’ve taken the required class? And I can’t see a rule that disqualifies a parent from warming up their daughter, even if there is a possible injury risk. We live in a crazy litigious society, and I’d prefer not to be the first test case when unqualified Mom A hits bystander player B in the head with a throwback.

More specifically, is there any particular rule in any other high school sport that would prevent a non coach from performing the warm up drills that Multiple mentioned in his original post? I only work softball so I’m not familiar with the other rulebooks.

This is not something that is going to be addressed in the rule books nor should it be any concern of an umpire.

If the school district or league has any restrictions on who can coach and what they must do to qualify, this is on that entity to police those requirements.

If the umpire staff is expected to police that, the umpires need to have a serious talk with their association to go to those leagues and set this straight.

For comparison purposes.....should the umpires be asking every player prior to the game if they have the sufficient grades to be able to play in that game? Not our issue to deal with.

Multiple Sports is worrying about far to many things that should have NO bearing on the game. Hope his strike zone is perfect.

PS/FYI, don't recommend anyone tell my daughter as a college softball player she is a second class athlete as a female. Although I might pay someone to do it for the entertainment value of it. LOL

Your rules interpreter is right

Pitching warm-ups before game time is not our concern, with the exception of when a player doesn't wear the appropriate helmet/mask while she's catching within the confines of the field. There is no basis in the rules to prohibit Mom or Dad from catching Susie's warm-up pitches before the game.

What happens in the bullpen or other designated warm-up areas outside of the fences, again, that's not covered by the rules with the previous exception as I mentioned. So letting Mom or Dad warm up Susie then is perfectly acceptable from an umpiring standpoint.

Even on the field itself, there isn't a specific rule that says a parent cannot come out of the stands to warm up a pitcher. If the coach is okay with it, what rule are we to use to say, "Nope, can't happen"? Unfortunately, the NFHS rules book or case book does not state that parents cannot come onto the field between innings.

Now, if the coach claims the parent is a team coach, then the parent needs to abide by the rules regarding where coaches may sit (must be in the dugout or designated warm-up area at all times unless actively participating in the game as a base coach), what they may wear, etc. So if Dad comes onto the field with blue jeans, then we can say something.

I know this is not directly relevant, but professional baseball rules list the people who are authorized to be on the field (Players and Coaches in uniform, managers, news photographers authorized by the home team, umpires, officers of the law in uniform (police) and watchmen or other employees of the home club (4.07 (a)).

More directly, NFHS Rule 3-6-6 only permits the "batter, runner(s), on-deck batter, coaches in the coach's box, bat/ball shaggers or one of the nine players on defense... to be outside the designated dugout/bench or designated warm-up areas." This implies that no one else, except media (the rules provide for a designated media area to be set up on the field, with the stipulation that said area is to be considered dead ball territory) , umpires, and possibly active police or security, are to be allowed on the field.

If no one except the aforementioned individuals is to be allowed on the field, then there is no reason for parents to warm up their children during a game, unless a parent is also present at the field in one of the above roles.

That's a real stretch.

3-6-6 basically says that bench personnel must stay on the bench if they are not actively participating in the game. The exception is that they can also go to a designated warm-up area. The only implication in the rule is that team personnel are not allowed in the bleachers, concession stand, press box, along the fence next to the opposing dugout, etc. All of the case plays for 3-6-6 refer to bench personnel.

3-6-6 makes no mention whatsoever of spectators in between innings. Would you not allow a volunteer from the concession stand to bring your partner and you a Gatorade? What about someone from the stands who comes in to do some groundskeeping? Or a Mom who needs to help her daughter with a hair ribbon? So why would you feel compelled to prevent an adult who isn't a coach from helping a pitcher warm up?

I've done a number of high school games where there was only one adult in the dugout, and he/she has needed the help of a parent to take care of the dugout while he/she goes out to base coach. I don't see this as being any different.

So now you are going to let a parent in the dugout to be a "bench" coach. At the end of the inning, I guess that parent can go back to her lawn chair ??
This is why some feel softball is a second class sport or we treat if no different than parks and rec. They aren't a coach so when they holler and scream at you in the dug out and throw a bat onto the field to protest a call or you going to eject a "spectator". By your standards she isn't a coach.
Let's have coaches and spectators and keep them different. I don't toss spectators ( let admin deal with them ). I will eject a coach if neccessry.
Parents are not coaches....

I doubt there is another hs school sport where we as officials let parents (spectators ) get involved as much as they do....

No my zone is far from perfect.. Missed 4 pitches today ( that I know if )...definitely too small.

You don't get to decide who the school considers an authorizes person or a coach.

No, I wouldn’t allow the “bench” coach to go back and forth from the dugout to the bleachers. Once they’ve established themselves as a “coach”, they have to stay in the dugout. It’s almost always a small school that is really hurting for players, and the coach is pretty much babysitting more than coaching. I can probably count on one hand where I’ve seen it happen.

IMO, this would apply to any alphabet. Had a NQ one year where I noticed (as the UIC) the HC visiting a "spectator" sitting behind the backstop just a bit off-center every half inning. Before the next game this guy spent time with the team warming up on the field. I mentioned it to the TD (JO Commissioner) who sat down behind him for the next game. Not only was he charting pitches, he was offering direction that you would normally hear from a coach.

So, the TD told him he could either be a spectator or a coach and if he were going to coach, he needed to be in the dugout. He didn't like it, but he didn't argue too much. Apparently, the TD wasn't wrong :)