Detached Equipment

[IRISHMAFIA]

Gotta share this one from the Softball Umpires facebook page:

Catch or No Catch? B1 hits a high line drive, knocking the glove off F5’s hand with the ball in it. Prior to the glove hitting the ground F5 catches the glove/ball. F6 starts to celebrate his catch. Catch or No Catch?

I am assuming that F6 actually grabbed the glove before hitting the ground, but it is irrelevant.

There is obviously not enough info, so the assumption is the second defender eventually took possession of the ball.

However, the argument being made is that this is a no catch based on detached equipment. Though not a given, much of the debate is based on USA rules

Thoughts?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Gotta share this one from the Softball Umpires facebook page:

Catch or No Catch? B1 hits a high line drive, knocking the glove off F5’s hand with the ball in it. Prior to the glove hitting the ground F5 catches the glove/ball. F6 starts to celebrate his catch. Catch or No Catch?

I am assuming that F6 actually grabbed the glove before hitting the ground, but it is irrelevant.

There is obviously not enough info, so the assumption is the second defender eventually took possession of the ball.

However, the argument being made is that this is a no catch based on detached equipment. Though not a given, much of the debate is based on USA rules

Thoughts?

If the ball was in the F5 glove before it came off, and F5 caught/controlled the glove with ball; good catch.

If F6 caught the glove, that is detached equipment.
Why is that irrelevant?

[Tru_in_Blu]

USA rules states: 8.5.F

"When a fielder intentionally contacts or catches...

I have a legal catch, regardless if F5 or F6 managed to snag the glove before it hit the ground. Much like a batted ball in the air that deflects off one fielder and another catches the ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If the ball was in the F5 glove before it came off, and F5 caught/controlled the glove with ball; good catch.

If F6 caught the glove, that is detached equipment.
Why is that irrelevant?

Because it does not meet the definition of detached equipment as it refers to making a play with the ball

[Manny A]

The debate involves the USA Definition of No Catch under Rule 1. It says it is not a catch:

3. When the fielder catches a batted or thrown ball with anything other than the hand(s) or glove / mitt in its proper place.

The issue here is that the ball knocked the glove off the fielder's hand before he/she demonstrates control of it. Once he/she prevents the glove from falling on the ground with the ball in it, does that make it a catch or not? Since the glove is not in its proper place at that moment, does the fielder still need to reach into the glove to secure the ball in his/her hand to finally validate the catch? Or is it sufficient to simply hold onto the glove with the ball in it?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The debate involves the USA Definition of No Catch under Rule 1. It says it is not a catch:



The issue here is that the ball knocked the glove off the fielder's hand before he/she demonstrates control of it. Once he/she prevents the glove from falling on the ground with the ball in it, does that make it a catch or not? Since the glove is not in its proper place at that moment, does the fielder still need to reach into the glove to secure the ball in his/her hand to finally validate the catch? Or is it sufficient to simply hold onto the glove with the ball in it?

The detached equipment rule has no relevance in the play since it was not intentional. Besides, the glove WAS in it's "proper place" when contact with the ball was made and the ball and/or glove never touched anything other than a defender.

[josephrt1]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The detached equipment rule has no relevance in the play since it was not intentional. Besides, the glove WAS in it's "proper place" when contact with the ball was made and the ball and/or glove never touched anything other than a defender.

Irish, I'd like to ask a very specific question related to this original post.

First, I understand and agree with you that this is not detached equipment for the reasons you say.

Second, I think the original post has a typo because the writer says the glove came off F5 and F5 caught the glove. Then the writer says F6 celebrates. Let's assume F6 has nothing to do with this play because F5 is the one who caught the glove.

So if F5 caught the glove which contains the ball, but she does not but the glove on her hand, do we need to wait to make the out call until she either 1) puts the glove on her hand properly with the ball in it, or 2) takes the ball out with her bare hand. Otherwise is this like a fielder trapping the ball against her chest and we don't have an out unless she controls the ball with the hand or glove?

Thanks