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-   -   NFHS pitcher's foot (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/103753-nfhs-pitchers-foot.html)

CecilOne Mon Apr 09, 2018 09:59am

NFHS pitcher's foot
 
The rule says the pivot foot must be ON or partially ON the top surface of the pitching plate. Either the toe, heel or entire foot MUST be ON or partially ON the pitching plate.

Technically, if the pivot foot toe is butted against the back of the plate or the heel is butted against the front, that is by rule illegal.

Call or no-call?

RKBUmp Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:07am

If you don't call it then you aren't enforcing the rule set you are officiating under. And you wont have much defense if a coach questions why you aren't enforcing the pitcher having their foot on the pitching plate.

Tru_in_Blu Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1020610)
The rule says the pivot foot must be ON or partially ON the top surface of the pitching plate. Either the toe, heel or entire foot MUST be ON or partially ON the pitching plate.

Technically, if the pivot foot toe is butted against the back of the plate or the heel is butted against the front, that is by rule illegal.

Call or no-call?

The green font is from the rule. The red font appears to be your interpolation.

You've stated a foot butted up against the back or front of the pitcher's plate is illegal.

And you're asking us if we'd ignore that and not call an illegal pitch.

Is that accurate?

CecilOne Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 1020615)
The green font is from the rule. The red font appears to be your interpolation.

You've stated a foot butted up against the back or front of the pitcher's plate is illegal.

And you're asking us if we'd ignore that and not call an illegal pitch.

Is that accurate?

Yes.

Manny A Mon Apr 09, 2018 02:07pm

"Coach, what other pitching rules would you like me to ignore because you feel they don't offer the pitcher any advantage? Shall I blow off when she steps on the plate with her hands together? What about if she separates them and decides to bring them back together? Oh, and surely when she steps back with her non-pivot foot and it lands outside the 24" lane, there can't possibly be any advantage gained there, right?" :D

Seriously, it's a pitching rule. God knows too many of us fail to enforce a lot of those violations already.

Now, if you can't tell that the pitcher has a small portion of her pivot foot overlapping the plate because it's slightly covered with dirt, or perhaps the plate is chewed up in front and no longer a straight 24" edge, I can see giving her the benefit of the doubt. But if it is crystal clear that she has no part of that foot on top of the plate, why give her a free pass?

youngump Mon Apr 09, 2018 04:35pm

This is a question that only makes sense in message board land. If her foot is touching the plate then it is not clear from my distance that no part of her foot is above the plate. I make this call when I can see space.

teebob21 Mon Apr 09, 2018 05:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1020610)
The rule says the pivot foot must be ON or partially ON the top surface of the pitching plate. Either the toe, heel or entire foot MUST be ON or partially ON the pitching plate.

Technically, if the pivot foot toe is butted against the back of the plate or the heel is butted against the front, that is by rule illegal.

Call or no-call?

Call it. NFHS is the only major code that I work that only requires one foot on the pitching plate. If they have zero feet on the plate, it's an IP everytime.

Manny A Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 1020627)
This is a question that only makes sense in message board land. If her foot is touching the plate then it is not clear from my distance that no part of her foot is above the plate. I make this call when I can see space.

I'm able to see it quite clearly on some fields. Watch the pitcher warming up before the inning starts, and you'll see it. If it looks the same when she's actually pitching, call it. I've done it a few times, and I've never had a pitcher or coach complain that she was "on the plate" and I just couldn't tell.

Yes, the benefit of the doubt can be given to the pitcher when conditions aren't ideal so that you can see it. But if you can definitively tell, then letting it go because you don't "see space" between the foot and the plate is selective enforcement.

CecilOne Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:08am

OK, so we all agree, if you can see it for sure, call it. :cool:

Like any call, especially controversial, be sure, no OOO. :)

youngump Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 1020662)
I'm able to see it quite clearly on some fields. Watch the pitcher warming up before the inning starts, and you'll see it. If it looks the same when she's actually pitching, call it. I've done it a few times, and I've never had a pitcher or coach complain that she was "on the plate" and I just couldn't tell.

Yes, the benefit of the doubt can be given to the pitcher when conditions aren't ideal so that you can see it. But if you can definitively tell, then letting it go because you don't "see space" between the foot and the plate is selective enforcement.

How good would a field have to be for you tell the difference between the foot being a 64th of inch over the pitching plate and being behind it by a 64th of an inch? I don't think I could tell that from 6 feet away on a permanent turf field and I have 20/15 vision.

Tru_in_Blu Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 1020667)
I have 20/15 vision.

I am so jealous.

Mountaincoach Thu Apr 12, 2018 07:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 1020667)
How good would a field have to be for you tell the difference between the foot being a 64th of inch over the pitching plate and being behind it by a 64th of an inch? I don't think I could tell that from 6 feet away on a permanent turf field and I have 20/15 vision.

I do not agree. It's VERY easy to see if that foot is on top of the plate. If you cannot see it from behind the plate, the FU should have an easy bird's eye view of it from the side. Call it. I saw this very thing happen just a few nights ago. The pitcher's heal was just barely touching the front vertical surface of the mound at the beginning of her windup. By the time she delivered her pitch, that foot was easily 8 or 10 inches off the mound with her toe driving down hard in the dirt. I was coaching 1st and quietly mentioned it to the field umpire who did nothing.

Manny A Thu Apr 12, 2018 08:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 1020667)
How good would a field have to be for you tell the difference between the foot being a 64th of inch over the pitching plate and being behind it by a 64th of an inch? I don't think I could tell that from 6 feet away on a permanent turf field and I have 20/15 vision.

I don't have a problem telling on fields that have actual 24" x 6" undamaged plates with no large holes behind or in front. All you're looking for is a noticeable gap between the heel and the rubber where you can see the dirt.

It's those fields where it's obvious that the pitching plate has been the same for a few years such that it's missing chunks on the front edge, and/or there's a 2- to 4-inch crater in front of it. With those conditions, that sliver of dirt you see between the heel and what's left of the front edge of the plate can and should be ignored.

Tru_in_Blu Thu Apr 12, 2018 08:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach (Post 1020702)
I do not agree. It's VERY easy to see if that foot is on top of the plate. If you cannot see it from behind the plate, the FU should have an easy bird's eye view of it from the side. Call it. I saw this very thing happen just a few nights ago. The pitcher's heal was just barely touching the front vertical surface of the mound at the beginning of her windup. By the time she delivered her pitch, that foot was easily 8 or 10 inches off the mound with her toe driving down hard in the dirt. I was coaching 1st and quietly mentioned it to the field umpire who did nothing.

/rant on

THERE ARE NO MOUNDS IN SOFTBALL!!!

/rant off

Mountaincoach Thu Apr 12, 2018 09:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 1020706)
/rant on

THERE ARE NO MOUNDS IN SOFTBALL!!!

/rant off

LOL. Excuse me! Feel better now?

Manny A Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 1020706)
/rant on

THERE ARE NO MOUNDS IN SOFTBALL!!!

/rant off

Funny you should say that. I was watching the telecast of the Tennessee / Auburn game last weekend. Whoever the color person was in the booth, she kept referring to a mound. I would suspect she's a former NCAA D1 player who should know better!

BretMan Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:44pm

I've heard a few D1 NCAA coaches call it "the mound" too. So, however much it might make an umpire cringe...apparently it is an accepted slang/colloquialism throughout softball, even by those that do know better.

Tru_in_Blu Thu Apr 12, 2018 01:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach (Post 1020711)
LOL. Excuse me! Feel better now?

Well, a little, but that's because I don't know your recidivism rate. :p

Mountaincoach Thu Apr 12, 2018 01:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 1020720)
Well, a little, but that's because I don't know your recidivism rate. :p

LOL. My parole officer told me to let it go. :) From this point on, I'll probably be the only guy around here who refers to it as the plate instead of the mound.

youngump Thu Apr 12, 2018 02:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 1020705)
I don't have a problem telling on fields that have actual 24" x 6" undamaged plates with no large holes behind or in front. All you're looking for is a noticeable gap between the heel and the rubber where you can see the dirt.

That's what I said, if there's space I call it. :cool: I'm not sure if we're just talking past each other or if we actually differ in some way on this call.

Tru_in_Blu Thu Apr 12, 2018 09:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach (Post 1020722)
LOL. My parole officer told me to let it go. :) From this point on, I'll probably be the only guy around here who refers to it as the plate instead of the mound.

Well, then, it's up to you to carry the message to your blue brothers and sisters. Change occurs slowly, particularly when you have folks that work both small ball and softball.

And as mentioned, even the talking heads on softball broadcasts fail our sport!

Fight the good fight! :)

IRISHMAFIA Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:54pm

It is a leftover from the baseball invasion of softball. Still have a fair amount of people from baseball in the game. The players repeat what they hear from the coaches and fans.

And the talking heads......well, their respect for the game is questionable at best. JMHO.

teebob21 Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach (Post 1020702)
By the time she delivered her pitch, that foot was easily 8 or 10 inches off the mound with her toe driving down hard in the dirt. I was coaching 1st and quietly mentioned it to the field umpire who did nothing.

Unless the pitcher was stepping forward off the pitcher's plate, this is a legal pitch in all codes. F1 does not have to be in contact with the plate at the time of release. Good job on the base umpire. Fed 6-1-2-C for reference.

Mountaincoach Sun Apr 15, 2018 09:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1020753)
Unless the pitcher was stepping forward off the pitcher's plate, this is a legal pitch in all codes. F1 does not have to be in contact with the plate at the time of release. Good job on the base umpire. Fed 6-1-2-C for reference.

First, as mentioned earlier, her foot was never on the top of the plate. Secondly, the FU acknowledged it WAS illegal but declined to go any further under the circumstances, and I, quite frankly, did not want to stop the game and cause a scene. And yes, I know the foot does not have to be in contact with the plate at the time of release.


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