USA change 1 - inspections

[CecilOne]

Rule 3, Section 7C: (JO Only) All equipment that shall be inspected by the umpire is to be placed outside the dugout/bench area prior to the start of the game for pregame inspection.

Comment: Requires teams to put all equipment to be inspected by the umpires outside the dugout/bench area before the game begins.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Rule 3, Section 7C: (JO Only) All equipment that shall be inspected by the umpire is to be placed outside the dugout/bench area prior to the start of the game for pregame inspection.

Comment: Requires teams to put all equipment to be inspected by the umpires outside the dugout/bench area before the game begins.

That is another follow-the-leader joke that just places the umpire in that much more a precarious position throughout the game.

[3afan]

IMO checking equipment is a joke ...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That is another follow-the-leader joke that just places the umpire in that much more a precarious position throughout the game.

Can you elaborate? (About the precarious position; I get the follow-the-leader comment, I think ...)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Can you elaborate? (About the precarious position; I get the follow-the-leader comment, I think ...)

Does a cheat show you his hand before cheating? If someone knows a piece of equipment isn't going to pass inspection, they probably aren't going to offer it up.

The precarious portion, IMO, is the imminent questioning of equipment during a game and liability risk should a non-inspected piece of equipment enter the game unknown to the umpire and a player is injured. Twenty years ago, I would have scoffed at the supposition I just offered, but not in today's world.

[Stat-Man]

I find it interesting USA is adding this after NFHS quickly scrapped it after just one season.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

I find it interesting USA is adding this after NFHS quickly scrapped it after just one season.

Equipment checks (hats & bats) were part of the HS game for a long time, but there was no explicit requirement to have the equipment outside the dugout. I'm just glad they removed the inspection requirement...I believe the coach should bear all the responsibility and liability for ensuring players are legally and properly equipped. If only umpires were required to ask the head coach before each game ...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Equipment checks (hats & bats) were part of the HS game for a long time, but there was no explicit requirement to have the equipment outside the dugout. I'm just glad they removed the inspection requirement...I believe the coach should bear all the responsibility and liability for ensuring players are legally and properly equipped. If only umpires were required to ask the head coach before each game ...

You cannot compare NFHS to any other association on this matter. Liability assignment isn't close.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You cannot compare NFHS to any other association on this matter. Liability assignment isn't close.

I wish I understood why this was. Whether it's a rec-level club team, a high school team, or a D1 NCAA team, everyone (including the officials) is there because they (or their parent/guardian) choose to be. If a participant is injured while playing legally, that is a risk they *should* be willing to assume in exchange for participation. If anyone chooses to cheat, and a game participant is injured due to that cheating, the cheater *should* be liable, as should the head coach of that team, they the players are minors.

I started working HS wrestling last year...and I was on the mat for a gruesome injury when a JV wrestler broke his arm in three places. At no point was I concerned that I would somehow be accused of being liable for his injury. I wish this was the case in softball. IMO, with some obvious exceptions, at no point should an official of any sport be liable for the actions or consequences of the choices that game participants make.

I know this is not the world we live in, though. It doesn't mean I like it.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

I find it interesting USA is adding this after NFHS quickly scrapped it after just one season.

I figure that will cause some confusion.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

I wish I understood why this was. Whether it's a rec-level club team, a high school team, or a D1 NCAA team, everyone (including the officials) is there because they (or their parent/guardian) choose to be. If a participant is injured while playing legally, that is a risk they *should* be willing to assume in exchange for participation. If anyone chooses to cheat, and a game participant is injured due to that cheating, the cheater *should* be liable, as should the head coach of that team, they the players are minors.

I started working HS wrestling last year...and I was on the mat for a gruesome injury when a JV wrestler broke his arm in three places. At no point was I concerned that I would somehow be accused of being liable for his injury. I wish this was the case in softball. IMO, with some obvious exceptions, at no point should an official of any sport be liable for the actions or consequences of the choices that game participants make.

I know this is not the world we live in, though. It doesn't mean I like it.

In HS, the coaches are employees with the same liability and authority status of a teacher. HS events are an extension of the classroom. An incident during HS athletic event would be handled the same as a similar event in the classroom. There is no question of authority, the HS is responsible for the athlete and coaching staff and should cover any issue involving liability.

In ASA/USA, U-Trip, NSA, PGF, etc. the coach doesn't carry the same legal authority as that of a HS teacher or coach and would be open to a wide range of issues involving liability should the be an issue involving injury to a player or another coach.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I figure that will cause some confusion.

I don't know the exact percentage, but I've always considered NFHS & USA to be about 95% the same. So we're already having "some confusion". Some of our guys consistently mess up the games they're working because they forget which hat they have on.

Heck, we can't even get some of our officials to wear the correct color t-shirt under their powder blue shirt. (NH wants navy shirt under powder blue; USA wants white under powder blue.) Then there are the outliers who show up with either red or green t-shirts under powder blue.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Does a cheat show you his hand before cheating? If someone knows a piece of equipment isn't going to pass inspection, they probably aren't going to offer it up.

Such a cheat can also hide the bat during in-dugout inspections, too.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The precarious portion, IMO, is the imminent questioning of equipment during a game and liability risk should a non-inspected piece of equipment enter the game unknown to the umpire and a player is injured. Twenty years ago, I would have scoffed at the supposition I just offered, but not in today's world.

You don't protect yourself from this with an inspection anyway.

Here's a radical suggestion for youth fastpitch: remove detection of illegal equipment from the umpire's responsibility altogether. Make it purely the coach's / parent's / player's responsibility. Opposing coaches can protest if they want the gear inspected; umpires stay out of it. IOW, treat it like player eligibility.

[3afan]

Originally Posted by Dakota

...
Here's a radical suggestion for youth fastpitch: remove detection of illegal equipment from the umpire's responsibility altogether. Make it purely the coach's / parent's / player's responsibility. Opposing coaches can protest if they want the gear inspected; umpires stay out of it. IOW, treat it like player eligibility.

yes!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Such a cheat can also hide the bat during in-dugout inspections, too.

You don't protect yourself from this with an inspection anyway.

Here's a radical suggestion for youth fastpitch: remove detection of illegal equipment from the umpire's responsibility altogether. Make it purely the coach's / parent's / player's responsibility. Opposing coaches can protest if they want the gear inspected; umpires stay out of it. IOW, treat it like player eligibility.

Because, whether we like it or not, the game official will always be near the top of list of any litigation and there is no one who can prevent it.