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-   -   NCAA Softball Rule Changes for 2018 (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/102872-ncaa-softball-rule-changes-2018-a.html)

Scooby Thu Aug 17, 2017 01:38pm

NCAA Softball Rule Changes for 2018
 
The new rule changes can be found at:




http://sup.arbitersports.com/Groups/...s_20170817.pdf

Scooby Thu Aug 17, 2017 02:02pm

Some highlights:

Illegal pitches no longer advance the base runners.

Projected subs are allowed but not projected re-entries.

The batter is out if any part of her foot is on the ground outside the batters box when her bat contacts the pitched ball. (even if part of her foot is in the batters box.)

A ball that has been ruled foul can be changed to a home run, ground rule double or other dead ball award.

Teams are no longer allowed to huddle after outs.

Colo Blue Thu Aug 17, 2017 02:32pm

You will probably see a lot more illegal pitches called with the penalty reduced to just a ball on the batter.
I think the tough change is calling a batter out if any part of their foot is outside the batter's box when contact is made. This will take a while for batter's to get accustomed to.

teebob21 Thu Aug 17, 2017 03:10pm

All in all, I think these are good changes. The runner's lane is back, and OBS now requires possession of the ball in order to block the base path. Several of these rules changes bring NCAA back in harmony with USA/ASA and Fed.

The pitching change might be a tough one if not enforced consistently. The rule now requires a "noticeable stop of two seconds" when the hands come together. I look forward to some clarity at camp this fall...are we talking a baseball-style stop, or can the hands keep moving?

That said, I expect an uptick in complaints with coaches next year, too. Time to keep improving my game management...

Big Slick Thu Aug 17, 2017 03:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1008785)
All in all, I think these are good changes. The runner's lane is back, and OBS now requires possession of the ball in order to block the base path. Several of these rules changes bring NCAA back in harmony with USA/ASA and Fed.

If the rule is changed to the published document:
Quote:

9.5.1 Obstruction occurs when a defensive player, not in possession of the ball or in the act of fielding a batted ball, impedes a batter's attempt to make contact with a pitch or impedes the progress of any runner who is legally running bases on a live ball. It can be intentional or unintentional. It is obstruction if a defensive player is blocking the whole base/plate or base path without the ball and/or the runner does not have a clear path to the base/plate.
(See also Rule 12.13.)
The third sentence contradicts the first sentence, and is not necessary. The rule should have NOTHING about blocking the base. This is horrible rule writing (at its finest?). I hope the sentence is removed (but it won't be), and now every play at the plate is "obstruction."

Sure, it is now in line with other codes (good thing), but the other rules (pitching, batting) are completely different than other codes.

Quote:

The pitching change might be a tough one if not enforced consistently. The rule now requires a "noticeable stop of two seconds" when the hands come together. I look forward to some clarity at camp this fall...are we talking a baseball-style stop, or can the hands keep moving?
This one is OK, if enforced correctly. The IP penalty is just plain stupid. The correct solution is the allow international style pitching.

The worst one is the batter's feet on contact. Now the entire foot has to be in the batter's box. I'm sure that won't cause any arguments.

I hope the "no huddle" expands to just not "after an out" (i.e. after the first pitch after an out). The sub rule is good as well.

IRISHMAFIA Thu Aug 17, 2017 07:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooby (Post 1008783)
Some highlights:

Illegal pitches no longer advance the base runners.

Tried to make this change in ASA a few years ago and your would think someone was asking for the first born

Quote:


Projected subs are allowed but not projected re-entries.
IMO, this is a mistake assuming they are referring to a true projected change

Quote:


The batter is out if any part of her foot is not the ground outside the batters box when her bat contacts the pitched ball. (even if part of her foot is in the batters box.)
Somebody sold them a line of bullshit on this one

Quote:

A ball that has been ruled foul can be changed to a home run, ground rule double or other dead ball award.
Should have been that way from the beginning assuming it was an obvious misapplication of a rule

Quote:

Teams are no longer allowed to huddle after outs.
Considering how we are often reminded the players are not little girls, that should be a no-brainer

Quote:

The batter-runner is out when she runs the bases in reverse order, runs intentionally into the outfield between bases or runs through first base unnecessarily into the outfield on a walk, dropped third strike or any
batted ball either to confuse opponents or to make a travesty of the game.

A runner shall not run bases in reverse order or intentionally run into the outfield between bases either to confuse the fielders or to make a travesty of the game.
This is ridiculous

Quote:

If a runner misses home plate and the fielder misses or makes no attempt to tag the runner, the umpire should
make no signal, verbal or nonverbal.
Rationale: By requiring the umpire to make the safe signal, it could be confusing to the offense and they would have no reason to think they missed home plate. By the umpire making no signal, it notifies both the offense and
defense that something more needs to occur before a ruling can be made.
IOW, the offense isn't capable to carry that responsibility of seeing and knowing how to complete the play. SMH

IRISHMAFIA Thu Aug 17, 2017 07:49pm

Quote:

The batter-runner is out when she runs the bases in reverse order, runs intentionally into the outfield between bases or runs through first base unnecessarily into the outfield on a walk, dropped third strike or any
batted ball either to confuse opponents or to make a travesty of the game.

A runner shall not run bases in reverse order or intentionally run into the outfield between bases either to confuse the fielders or to make a travesty of the game.
Wonder how this will affect the application of the LBR.

AtlUmpSteve Thu Aug 17, 2017 08:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1008785)
All in all, I think these are good changes. The runner's lane is back, and OBS now requires possession of the ball in order to block the base path. Several of these rules changes bring NCAA back in harmony with USA/ASA and Fed.

The pitching change might be a tough one if not enforced consistently. The rule now requires a "noticeable stop of two seconds" when the hands come together. I look forward to some clarity at camp this fall...are we talking a baseball-style stop, or can the hands keep moving?

That said, I expect an uptick in complaints with coaches next year, too. Time to keep improving my game management...

You are either misstating or misunderstanding the pitching change; and it really isn't a change, since we were directed/required to enforce this last year by a rules interpretation. The pitcher is NOT required to stop when the hands come together (your words). The pitcher is required to make a noticeable stop of two seconds AFTER stepping on the pitcher's plate, and BEFORE bringing the hands together.

AtlUmpSteve Thu Aug 17, 2017 08:15pm

In re: projected subs......

I think this is also badly misstated. The rule change now brings NCAA in line with every other form of softball. Previously, NCAA wouldn't allow a coach to make two offensive changes at once; they could only sub one batter at a time, as that batter came up to bat.

And NCAA would not allow you to accept a reentry for a DP at the end of an inning (when someone ran for the DP); the coach had to remember to re-enter when the DP position came up to bat. Well, but it was different if the DP played defense, then you could re-enter because she was playing defense. But if offense only, nope, cannot take that change, coach.

Not truly projected, never was, except by the dumbasses that made it more difficult than it needed to be; like ASA/USA and NFHS, you can take those subs when the coach wants to make them, as long as you are only replacing someone not currently actively playing (batting, running, playing defense).

teebob21 Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 1008790)
You are either misstating or misunderstanding the pitching change; and it really isn't a change, since we were directed/required to enforce this last year by a rules interpretation. The pitcher is NOT required to stop when the hands come together (your words). The pitcher is required to make a noticeable stop of two seconds AFTER stepping on the pitcher's plate, and BEFORE bringing the hands together.

Good point Steve. In hindsight, don't quite know what I was thinking on that part of my post.

IRISHMAFIA Fri Aug 18, 2017 08:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 1008791)
In re: projected subs......

I think this is also badly misstated. The rule change now brings NCAA in line with every other form of softball.

IMO that depends on their definition of a projected substitution.

The wording should simply state that any change should take place when the coach desires to make that change effective. And in all cases, any change becomes effective immediately.

It is not that difficult

umpjim Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:05am

Baseball guy here with a couple of questions on the running lane.
In the past in baseball there was an interp that if the BR was stradling the lane, running with one foot in and one foot out, and was hit by the throw when the "out" foot was in stride and not touching the ground there would be no interference. Are you going to have to judge the same thing, where was the foot, when the throw hit the BR?
Also does softball have the "intervening play" interp? R3 is allowed to score if a play is made on her at HP and then there is a running lane violation on the following play at 1B.

josephrt1 Fri Aug 18, 2017 07:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 1008795)
Baseball guy
Also does softball have the "intervening play" interp? R3 is allowed to score if a play is made on her at HP and then there is a running lane violation on the following play at 1B.

In USA softball, a run does not score if the last out of the inning is runner out before reaching 1st.

5.5.B. No run shall score if the third out of the inning is a result of:
1. A batter-runner being called out prior to reaching first base or any other runner forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner.

umpjim Fri Aug 18, 2017 07:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephrt1 (Post 1008797)
In USA softball, a run does not score if the last out of the inning is runner out before reaching 1st.

5.5.B. No run shall score if the third out of the inning is a result of:
1. A batter-runner being called out prior to reaching first base or any other runner forced out due to the batter becoming a batter-runner.

I was remiss in not specifying that the baseball intervening play applies with less than 2 out. So is there such an interp in SB codes? Also will you have to watch the outside foot of the runner in NCAA SB?

Crabby_Bob Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 1008795)
[...]
Also does softball have the "intervening play" interp? R3 is allowed to score if a play is made on her at HP and then there is a running lane violation on the following play at 1B.

The effect of the rule is: The ball is dead, the batter-runner is out, and each base runner must return to the last base occupied at the time of the pitch.

umpjim Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob (Post 1008799)
The effect of the rule is: The ball is dead, the batter-runner is out, and each base runner must return to the last base occupied at the time of the pitch.

Baseball has the same rule. But when an intervening play at HP happens they allow a safe at HP to stand even though an RLI happens afterwood. How does all of the SB codes address this? And how will the NCAA SB umpires address a BR straddling the lane while running to 1B?

IRISHMAFIA Sat Aug 19, 2017 06:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 1008800)
Baseball has the same rule. But when an intervening play at HP happens they allow a safe at HP to stand even though an RLI happens afterwood. How does all of the SB codes address this? And how will the NCAA SB umpires address a BR straddling the lane while running to 1B?

Forget "intervening play". Take it out of your softball vocabulary, doesn't exist.

If the 3rd out of the inning is the result of a runner being put out on a force or the BR failing to reach 1st safely, no run may score on that play.

jmkupka Mon Aug 21, 2017 03:20pm

F2 watches B/R round the bases after an over-the-fence HR, sees her miss the plate, and immediately appeals to the PU.
PU has to wait to see if BR is going realize her mistake (2, 3 steps later) before ruling?

The wording of the rationale actually seems to deny the defense the opportunity to appeal, instead of allowing it.
Couldn't a knowledgable OC use the rule ("sufficient time to advance or return") to have the appeal dissallowed?

CecilOne Mon Aug 21, 2017 03:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooby (Post 1008779)
The new rule changes can be found at:




http://sup.arbitersports.com/Groups/...s_20170817.pdf

I'm glad I don't have to attend that clinic! :eek:

AtlUmpSteve Mon Aug 21, 2017 05:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmkupka (Post 1008817)
F2 watches B/R round the bases after an over-the-fence HR, sees her miss the plate, and immediately appeals to the PU.
PU has to wait to see if BR is going realize her mistake (2, 3 steps later) before ruling?

The wording of the rationale actually seems to deny the defense the opportunity to appeal, instead of allowing it.
Couldn't a knowledgable OC use the rule ("sufficient time to advance or return") to have the appeal dissallowed?

The rule in every major ruleset of softball would be refuse to accept that appeal until the runners are given an opportunity to complete all running responsibility. In other words, since she can legally return and touch until she leaves live ball territory, no appeal should be considered until then.

This spells it out further, not really a rule change, after this play was handled incorrectly on a nationally broadcast game.

josephrt1 Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by umpjim View Post
[...
Also does softball have the "intervening play" interp? R3 is allowed to score if a play is made on her at HP and then there is a running lane violation on the following play at 1B.

Crabby_Bob;1008799]The effect of the rule is: The ball is dead, the batter-runner is out, and each base runner must return to the last base occupied at the time of the pitch.

Just to expand on what crabby_Bob says, if the runner had crossed the plate (this is now the last base touched) before the batter-runner interfered, with less than 2 outs, the run would score. if R3 had not yet reached home at the time of interference, R3 would be sent back to the last base touched which is 3rd base.

In your example i believe you said a play was made on her at home but you didn't say if she was out or safe. if she had already been called out, R3 remains out. If R3 was already safe, she remains safe. I'm not sure i understand what your "intervening play" has to do with this scenario (but i don't ump baseball).

umpjim Tue Aug 22, 2017 08:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by josephrt1 (Post 1008822)
Just to expand on what crabby_Bob says, if the runner had crossed the plate (this is now the last base touched) before the batter-runner interfered, with less than 2 outs, the run would score. if R3 had not yet reached home at the time of interference, R3 would be sent back to the last base touched which is 3rd base.

In your example i believe you said a play was made on her at home but you didn't say if she was out or safe. if she had already been called out, R3 remains out. If R3 was already safe, she remains safe. I'm not sure i understand what your "intervening play" has to do with this scenario (but i don't ump baseball).

Crabby_bob and NCAA say runners return TOP:
"EFFECT—The ball is dead, the batter-runner is out, and each base runner must return to the last base occupied at the time of the pitch. If the interference, in the umpire’s judgment, is an obvious attempt to prevent a double play, the base runner closest to home plate shall also be called out."
So without an "intervening play" interp, with less than 2 out, a safe R3 would be returned to 3B if the BR was called out for RLI after the play at HP.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Aug 22, 2017 09:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 1008824)
Crappy Bob and NCAA say runners return TOP:
"EFFECT—The ball is dead, the batter-runner is out, and each base runner must return to the last base occupied at the time of the pitch. If the interference, in the umpire’s judgment, is an obvious attempt to prevent a double play, the base runner closest to home plate shall also be called out."
So without an "intervening play" interp, with less than 2 out, a safe R3 would be returned to 3B if the BR was called out for RLI after the play at HP.

Not in softball

umpjim Tue Aug 22, 2017 09:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 1008826)
Not in softball

So who is correct in NCAA softball, joseprht1 or Crabby_bob? A played on R3 who is safe at HP is or isn't returned to 3B if the BR is called out for RLI after R3 scores with less than 2 out?

jmkupka Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:16am

With less than 2 outs, if the runner crosses the plate before the interference, her run counts and she is not returned to 3B.
She goes to the last base touched at the time of the INT. Home.

umpjim Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmkupka (Post 1008832)
With less than 2 outs, if the runner crosses the plate before the interference, her run counts and she is not returned to 3B.
She goes to the last base touched at the time of the INT. Home.

That's not what's in the NCAA proposed rule. And what about a straddling runner hit when a foot is in the air but has been touching outside the lane.

Crabby_Bob Tue Aug 22, 2017 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmkupka (Post 1008832)
With less than 2 outs, if the runner crosses the plate before the interference, her run counts and she is not returned to 3B.
She goes to the last base touched at the time of the INT. Home.

That's not what "each base runner must return to the last base occupied at the time of the pitch" means.

This is not new. I will not quote entire sections, but the effect of batter-runner interfering with the fielder receiving the throw is the same, see 2016-17:12.19.1.3.2 and 2014-15:12.19.1.4.2.
Effect: The ball is dead, the batter-runner is out, and each base runner must return to the last base occupied
at the time of the pitch. If the interference, in the umpire’s judgment, is an obvious attempt to prevent a double play, the base runner closest to home
plate shall also be called out.
Getting back to the overall topic, I mostly agree with IRISH and AtlUmpSteve.


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