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Stat-Man Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:17pm

2018 NFHS Rule Changes
 
Posted at http://nfhs.org/articles/high-school...lks-equipment/

  • Intentional Walks (no pitches thrown) are now available in FP.
  • Equipment doesn't need to be inspected or placed outside the dugout
  • New rule regarding wristbands with a play card.
  • Number of warmup pitches when previous pitcher is removed by rule or injury.
  • The pitcher may step backward with the non-pivot foot at any time prior to start of the pitch.
At the moment, I feel indifferent about most of these. We'll see if I feel the same way come next spring.

teebob21 Sun Jul 09, 2017 03:15am

Quote:

Equipment doesn't need to be inspected or placed outside the dugout
Hooray! Something that shouldn't have been our job to start with is no longer our job!

CecilOne Sun Jul 09, 2017 07:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1007624)
Hooray! Something that shouldn't have been our job to start with is no longer our job!

Hard to be indifferent about that one. :)

CecilOne Sun Jul 09, 2017 07:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stat-Man (Post 1007621)
Posted at http://nfhs.org/articles/high-school...lks-equipment/


[*]Intentional Walks (no pitches thrown) are now available in FP..


I don't believe that is part of the spirit of the game and also deprives the base runners of passed ball chances. :rolleyes:

IRISHMAFIA Sun Jul 09, 2017 08:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1007628)
I don't believe that is part of the spirit of the game and also deprives the base runners of passed ball chances. :rolleyes:

But everyone is doing it, even MLB, so it must be a good thing, right? :eek::rolleyes:

IRISHMAFIA Sun Jul 09, 2017 08:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1007624)
Hooray! Something that shouldn't have been our job to start with is no longer our job!

Actually, it is the umpire's job which now becomes more difficult as there is no preventive applications taking place.

You know as well as I that many of these coaches are not that savvy on equipment. Now, I suspect umpires will have to deal with "in game" challenges from opposing teams which will not bode well for the flow of the game or an umpire not well prepared to deal with such things.

IMO, it may be a problematic move that in the past was preempted by the pre-game check.

IOW, I do not trust some coaches to not take advantage by making this part of their game strategy.

Stat-Man Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 1007633)
Actually, it is the umpire's job which now becomes more difficult as there is no preventive applications taking place.

You know as well as I that many of these coaches are not that savvy on equipment. Now, I suspect umpires will have to deal with "in game" challenges from opposing teams which will not bode well for the flow of the game or an umpire not well prepared to deal with such things.

IMO, it may be a problematic move that in the past was preempted by the pre-game check.

IOW, I do not trust some coaches to not take advantage by making this part of their game strategy.

My sentiments exactly.

Sure, doing an equipment check may not be the most exciting 5-10 minutes of umpiring a softball game, but it's probably the only chance to be preventative in keeping uncertified bats and other equipment not up to snuff out of the game. In my short season this Spring, I discovered three bats that lacked the necessary certification and three helmets where the screws holding the cage in place were too loose--or, in one insance, a screw had totally broken off.

Granted, the onus is on coaches to ensure players are legally equipped, but I'm doubting most check their bats and helmets game to game to make sure unusable items are properly dealt with and left out of the dugout. It won't surprise me to see coaches using the coming change to their advantage.

I'll be curious to see if ejections increase next year due to illegal bats being used on the field more as opposed to being removed during a pregame inspection.

Dakota Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 1007633)
Actually, it is the umpire's job which now becomes more difficult as there is no preventive applications taking place.

You know as well as I that many of these coaches are not that savvy on equipment. Now, I suspect umpires will have to deal with "in game" challenges from opposing teams which will not bode well for the flow of the game or an umpire not well prepared to deal with such things.

IMO, it may be a problematic move that in the past was preempted by the pre-game check.

IOW, I do not trust some coaches to not take advantage by making this part of their game strategy.

IMO, the only real loss here is a safety check, not an illegal equipment check.

I don't recall ever finding an actual illegal bat in a high school game equipment inspection, but I have found numerous helmets with face masks missing screws or nearly in danger of falling off (it seemed) and once a cracked helmet. I have tossed a number of bats for being loose/wobbly.

If a coach / player has an intent to use an illegal bat, it is unlikely they will be putting it out for inspection anyway.

As far as unprepared umpires, such an umpire would likely have "allowed" the illegal bat during inspection.

Dakota Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stat-Man (Post 1007621)
...
  • Intentional Walks (no pitches thrown) are now available in FP.
....

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1007628)
I don't believe that is part of the spirit of the game and also deprives the base runners of passed ball chances. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 1007631)
But everyone is doing it, even MLB, so it must be a good thing, right? :eek::rolleyes:

The dumbing down of the game continues. At least MLB's rationale was pace of the game (still stupid, with little effect on pace of game...). NFHS's rationale is what?

RKBUmp Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:31am

Quote:

At least MLB's rationale was pace of the game
Quickest stats I could bring up were 2015 MLB season on intentional walks. 3 teams were tied for tops in intentional walks at 45 allowed in 162 games for an average of .278 per game. So, roughly 1 IW every 4 games. And this is saving time and speeding up the game how? They are saving maybe 30 seconds every 4th game ? Ok, yep, really speeding up the game.

Dakota Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 1007670)
Quickest stats I could bring up were 2015 MLB season on intentional walks. 3 teams were tied for tops in intentional walks at 45 allowed in 162 games for an average of .278 per game. So, roughly 1 IW every 4 games. And this is saving time and speeding up the game how? They are saving maybe 30 seconds every 4th game ? Ok, yep, really speeding up the game.

I agree... stupid. But it was their rationale.

Rich Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 1007633)
Actually, it is the umpire's job which now becomes more difficult as there is no preventive applications taking place.

You know as well as I that many of these coaches are not that savvy on equipment. Now, I suspect umpires will have to deal with "in game" challenges from opposing teams which will not bode well for the flow of the game or an umpire not well prepared to deal with such things.

IMO, it may be a problematic move that in the past was preempted by the pre-game check.

IOW, I do not trust some coaches to not take advantage by making this part of their game strategy.

I'm a baseball guy who might be adding some fastpitch next year after coaching it for a while.

I've never had a bat challenged since we stopped doing checks 5-7 years ago. But I know the rule if one is and it's illegal.

Mountaincoach Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:42am

I stood on a couple of fields yesterday with a lot of NSA umpires who do high school ball in the spring. I saw a lot of smiles when I mentioned the equipment check rule change. Some of them looked like a kid on Christmas morning. :)

CecilOne Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 1007681)
I'm a baseball guy who might be adding some fastpitch next year after coaching it for a while.

Does that mean harder to train? ;) :p :)

Rich Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 1007683)
Does that mean harder to train? ;) :p :)

Nah.

Truth is, the umpires I got around here for my team's games were horrible. For example, I liked using the DP/FLEX (when available) and at least half the umpires we had didn't know the rule. Most others didn't know the differences between USSSA, NAFA, NSA, etc. and just made crap up as they went along. In the end, I was just happy if they called strikes and got plays on the bases right.

I have been licensed to work HS softball for 3 years now and have not worked a game after giving it up in the mid 90s. I am an assigner and I consider my license an emergency replacement license just in case. Truth is, I do not consider my rules knowledge good enough to take the field right now even though I think I know the rules better than a majority of the umpires currently working. In baseball, I'm known as a "rules guy" and I simply couldn't work a sport unless I knew the rules to that level.

But I'm going to work on learning them for next season. In all honesty, HS baseball is starting to bore me.

Manny A Mon Jul 10, 2017 01:56pm

Just my opinion, but NFHS never really gave the 2017 equipment check rule change an opportunity to prove itself out. Before, we had to go into the dugouts to do them, which quite often required umpires to get in the players' way (and vice versa), and also discouraged players from actually removing bats from their equipment bags, etc.

With the rule change in 2017 requiring teams to have the equipment outside the dugouts for the inspection, I thought it made things more efficient for both umpires and teams. It rarely took us longer than 2 minutes per team if they had their gear out as required. As the season wore on, teams were quicker at being prepared. Seems odd that after a rule change that improved the process, in my opinion, they decided to scrap inspections altogether.

john5396 Mon Jul 10, 2017 03:39pm

As a baseball guy, FED made the same rule change on equipment inspection 4-5 years ago eliminating the requirement for umpires to inspect the equipment. We gain respect of the coaches, since the assumption now is that they are educators working for their young men an women. The coaches have a major penalty as well as the liability exposure if illegal equipment is used.

Since umpire inspections have ended, we have not had a rash of, or any that I know of, cheating cases.

Dakota Mon Jul 10, 2017 04:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 1007670)
Quickest stats I could bring up were 2015 MLB season on intentional walks. 3 teams were tied for tops in intentional walks at 45 allowed in 162 games for an average of .278 per game. So, roughly 1 IW every 4 games. And this is saving time and speeding up the game how? They are saving maybe 30 seconds every 4th game ? Ok, yep, really speeding up the game.

I don't know if you are a fan of the NFL, but they did something about as stupid. In the name of "safety" they reduced the overtime from 15 minutes to 10 minutes. I saw an analysis of the 2016 season that calculated that if this rule had been in effect for 2016, it would have reduced playing time by 0.16%, or 24.5 minutes total across all teams, all games.

Crabby_Bob Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 1007687)
Just my opinion, but NFHS never really gave the 2017 equipment check rule change an opportunity to prove itself out. Before, we had to go into the dugouts to do them, which quite often required umpires to get in the players' way (and vice versa), and also discouraged players from actually removing bats from their equipment bags, etc.

With the rule change in 2017 requiring teams to have the equipment outside the dugouts for the inspection, I thought it made things more efficient for both umpires and teams. It rarely took us longer than 2 minutes per team if they had their gear out as required. As the season wore on, teams were quicker at being prepared. Seems odd that after a rule change that improved the process, in my opinion, they decided to scrap inspections altogether.

I'm agreeing here. For Dakota, I've disallowed many bats for being on the non-approved list, or having the 2013 ASA stamp, and one small-barrel baseball bat.

Signalling intentional walks is stupid, as is allowing the pitcher to step back or allowing only one foot in contact with the pitcher's plate.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:03am

You need to remember a couple of things.

When the bat issue reared its head in the SP game, the FP folks mocked any concern in their game and laughed at the possibility that any illegal or non-approved bats showing up on THEIR field. Yeah, little did many realize that some SP playing daddies were providing their carrot-chasing DD with hot bats. I don't believe this happened in HS simply because kids aren't being recruited out of HS.

Meanwhile, baseball, especially NCAA laughed their asses off at the possibility of altered bats in their game until HR started flying out of the park and all of a sudden there was a concern to the point they placed a moratorium on composite bats until they could address their safety 10 years after ASA got into the bat testing business.

And then there are the coaches who believe winning is everything and that means anything that they can get away with goes. No, this isn't rampant and probably barely a blip on the overall radar of the game. But it only takes one time and as an umpire, I would rather have done what I could on my end. After all, are you really expecting the manager to do a real equipment check to make sure someone didn't bring a non-approved or altered bat to use without the coach's knowledge?

As previously noted, it isn't just non-approved equipment, though helmets and masks need to have their certification check, but also the condition of the equipment. If there is any chance something could go wrong, I'd like to think I could help avoid and injury or worse by taking 2-5 minutes checking the equipment.

And then there is the issue of liability

teebob21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 1007702)
And then there is the issue of liability

Which SHOULD fall squarely on the shoulders of the head coaches, and by extension the schools. NFHS themselves says, in print and in several places, that head coaches are responsible for ensuring that players are legally and properly equipped. That responsibility should extend into whatever legal concept EsqUmp can tell us about, where the adult assuming said responsibility at the plate meeting is in some way culpable for any harm resulting from a breach of it, and officials are released and held harmless.

But I'm an idealist and a die-hard believer in the weight of the printed word. Neither of these traits is worth a hill of beans defending ourselves as Random Joes in this litigious society...I know this. Sue me, I guess. No, wait: DON'T!

Your signature is as true and relevant as it was 8 or more years ago when you set it up. I am glad my off-hand comment generated so much good discussion about this topic. :D

BlueDevilRef Tue Jul 11, 2017 08:29am

I've not read verbiage of new rule but I'm sure that it will say equip checks are responsibility of HC. That does not prevent umpires from checking equipment as they deem necessary. I've personally never found anything illegal in 13 years. Just been rattles in bats or loose cages on helmets, which I will still address when I notice it.

Little Jimmy Tue Jul 11, 2017 08:59am

If it's true then I'm a fan of no longer checking equipment. As others have said, that doesn't mean that I can't check if I feel I have a need to. But it is repetitive to have a coach state that they are properly equipped but still have to go through the checking process. And it may not be a big thing, but I still have coaches who say they're "not ready" or that some of their bats are being used in the outfield for warm ups. I hope this change makes for a less confrontational beginning to a game.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Jul 11, 2017 09:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1007704)
Which SHOULD fall squarely on the shoulders of the head coaches, and by extension the schools. NFHS themselves says, in print and in several places, that head coaches are responsible for ensuring that players are legally and properly equipped. That responsibility should extend into whatever legal concept EsqUmp can tell us about, where the adult assuming said responsibility at the plate meeting is in some way culpable for any harm resulting from a breach of it, and officials are released and held harmless.

But I'm an idealist and a die-hard believer in the weight of the printed word. Neither of these traits is worth a hill of beans defending ourselves as Random Joes in this litigious society...I know this. Sue me, I guess. No, wait: DON'T!

Your signature is as true and relevant as it was 8 or more years ago when you set it up. I am glad my off-hand comment generated so much good discussion about this topic. :D

HS is different from non-scholastic organizations. The coach is an employee of the school/district which carries the relatively same authority as a teacher when is comes to guardianship of the students. In many cases, the issue of coverage is self-contained within the system AFA insurance issues. However, even though a rule may be written placing the responsibility on the coach, I don't believe anyone is exempt from potential legal action. And while those should be dismissed, that person must still respond which can be problematic to some even though the umpire may have multiple levels of coverage from various sources.

It sounds ludicrous, but so did a finding that a bat company was liable for an injury because there wasn't a warning noting the danger present when using a metal bat. Article

The State of New Jersey passed legislation that attempted to ban non-wood bats. Luckily, that movement died after about a week or so.


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