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-   -   Preventative What? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/102757-preventative-what.html)

Manny A Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:59am

Preventative What?
 
From the USA Softball site under its latest case plays:

Quote:

Play: With R1 on 1B, B2 has a 2-1 count. The next pitch is a ball and B2, thinking it is ball 4 heads to 1B and R1 advances to 2B. The plate umpire states that was only ball 3, so B2 comes back to bat with a 3-1 count. What happens to R1?

Ruling: In this play the offensive and defense have the responsibility to know the count. When R1 advanced to 2B the ball remains live as if they were stealing. B2 would be returned to bat and R1 would remain on 2B. However this is a great preventative umpire situation. When the plate umpire sees B2 start to 1B, call time and now nothing can happen and we will have less of a problem than if we had allowed the play to continue.
Umm, I don't think so. I'm calling out, "BALL THREE!!" loud and clear, and let the chips fall where they may. I'm not going to be the tenth defender on the field.

What next? Call Time when the retired batter takes off for first base on an uncaught third strike when first is occupied with less than two outs? Call Time following a foul tip when a runner advances, and then leaves the base to return to his/her previous base thinking a foul tip is a dead ball? Call Time when we fail to call IFF, the infielder muffs the catch, and the runners take off?

CecilOne Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 1007155)
From the USA Softball site under its latest case plays:

"Ruling: In this play the offensive and defense have the responsibility to know the count. When R1 advanced to 2B the ball remains live as if they were stealing. B2 would be returned to bat and R1 would remain on 2B"

Umm, I don't think so. I'm calling out, "BALL THREE!!" loud and clear, and let the chips fall where they may. I'm not going to be the tenth defender on the field.

What next? Call Time when the retired batter takes off for first base on an uncaught third strike when first is occupied with less than two outs? Call Time following a foul tip when a runner advances, and then leaves the base to return to his/her previous base thinking a foul tip is a dead ball? Call Time when we fail to call IFF, the infielder muffs the catch, and the runners take off?

Call time during a live ball with a runner advancing ???? :eek: :eek: :(

teebob21 Wed Jun 21, 2017 02:36pm

Quote:

When the plate umpire sees B2 start to 1B, call time and now nothing can happen and we will have less of a problem than if we had allowed the play to continue.
I believe the word you are looking for is "more". There is zero rule support for this case play, and nothing in the umpire manual to back it up, either.

IRISHMAFIA Wed Jun 21, 2017 09:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 1007160)
I believe the word you are looking for is "more". There is zero rule support for this case play, and nothing in the umpire manual to back it up, either.


A few years back there was a regional umpire clinic and an individual was invited and was "given" a spot to cover interference. He offered the following play:

Runner on 1B and batter hits a pop-up near the 1BL, but definitely over fair territory. F1 & F3 start for the ball, but F1 takes control and is waiting for the ball when the BR runs into F1. The ball drops in fair territory and then rolls foul.

The ruling stated was for the umpire to rule a foul ball to avoid a mess. The 10 umpires from my association all looked back and forth at each other shaking their head, knowing full well that was very weak.

The ruling in the OP reminds me of that day at which I'm still SMH.

Oh, how I long for the days when umpires were directed to call the rules regardless of what anyone may have to say about it.

illinoisbluezeb Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 1007166)
A few years back there was a regional umpire clinic and an individual was invited and was "given" a spot to cover interference. He offered the following play:

Runner on 1B and batter hits a pop-up near the 1BL, but definitely over fair territory. F1 & F3 start for the ball, but F1 takes control and is waiting for the ball when the BR runs into F1. The ball drops in fair territory and then rolls foul.

The ruling stated was for the umpire to rule a foul ball to avoid a mess. The 10 umpires from my association all looked back and forth at each other shaking their head, knowing full well that was very weak.

Don't agree with him. The fielder had a legitimate chance for an out. Fair or foul has nothing to do with F1 getting interfered with. What if it was clearly foul, landed foul untouched, then rolls fair? This is the type of play umpires are paid for.

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IRISHMAFIA Fri Jun 23, 2017 07:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinoisbluezeb (Post 1007177)
Don't agree with him. The fielder had a legitimate chance for an out. Fair or foul has nothing to do with F1 getting interfered with. What if it was clearly foul, landed foul untouched, then rolls fair? This is the type of play umpires are paid for.

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Not many umpires there did agree with him. It was a bullshit interpretation and so bad it was laughable.


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