3 man rotation question
 

Playoff time, we're working 3-man. Runner at first, we are rotated, I'm U1. Batter sac bunts, and is out at first, and while that is happening, the runner notices that 3rd is left uncovered and never stops, going to third like bat out of hell. I pause my out call long enough to make sure that F3 isn't going to drop the ball and the runner is nearly to third when I notice where she is. U3 is at second and PU is at third where he should be. Runner makes no attempt to go home, but if for some reason she did, I was nowhere near home plate. So normally in 3 man, U1 rotates home when PU rotates to third, but, U1 doesn't normally have to stay near 1B as long as I did. Any thoughts on covering that play?

The highlighted line is a little confusing.

PU needs to take this runner home. Since there was no play at 3B s/he should not have needed to commit to 3B. The only negative is that the PU must be aware s/he cannot move into a position between F3 and the plate

Now I'm confused. :confused:
My understanding, based on someone being ahead of the lead runner, is the PU covering 3rd, regardless of where the fielders are
and the U1 rotating home when the PU does that, even if late.
Then, the PU can judge where the play is going; possibly call off the U1 if the U1 is too late.

Additionally, this shows the value of BOTH pre-game and pre-pitch. :cool:

Uh, where is the third umpire?


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With a runner on first, U3 would be behind 2nd base.

Ok, read this initially wrong so never mind question. Seems like U1 better be able to make call and move 60 feet before R1 moves 180 feet. While difficult, that shouldn't be impossible even for a slower ump.


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And now responsible for 2nd and 1st if there would have been any play.

Agree that it should work, but with different numbers.
The rotation is to the RH box side of HP, from a position 12 - 15 feet outside 1st; so about 85 feet; starting when R1 approaches 2nd, so 120 feet for her.

Disagree with "starting when R1 approaches 2nd" because the out hasn't occurred at 1B yet. Remember R1 gets off the base on the release of the pitch and takes off when the bunt is laid down so she is already at 2B when the out is made. But as I said, I don't want to rush the call because I've seen F3s drop a ball that appeared to be caught, so I pause for a second or two and R1 is on her way to 3B. Yes, I should have gone home as soon as I made my call at 1B, but that "as soon" is not as soon as it would be on a base hit where there is no play at 1B and I would release for home much sooner.

Once the play at first is over, your responsibility is to cover home if your PU has rotated to third. U3 now has first and second.

On your play, the ball is still in the infield, so the next most likely play is at third base. PU is there to cover that. If there is a bad throw or bobble that allows the runner to attempt to advance, you should have had plenty of time to get to good position for a play at the plate.

Yup, what Andy said. As a matter of fact, Andy and I worked three-man a couple weeks ago. I actually specifically pre-gamed this play with him (I was U1, he was U3) and asked him to push me if I failed to rotate home in a timely manner after the BR reached first base.

Corrected

The PU has way less that half the distance to cover and doesn't have to traverse the area between the player with the ball and the plate.

BTW, I'm addressing the OP only. Personally, as a UIC, I'd rather U1 be sure and confident with the play @ 1B than worrying about getting to foul territory and to the far side of the plate prior to the runner approaching. The coverage of 3rd & home is a relatively easy task for the PU with just one runner to watch.

Let's say the OP runner gets to 3rd but the throw goes over and R1 tries for home, creating a rundown. If the PU had come into fair to make the call, does the PU stay in fair and the U1 takes the foul side of the rundown?

It seems obvious, but I seem to have heard the PU always takes the foul side of a rundown. Is that only in 2 ump?

Look at it this way; once the PU goes to 3rd, and U1 covers home on the rotation, which one is functionally the PU?

For all and any reasons you heard explaining why the PU needs to be on the foul side, those same principles apply to U1 covering home in the rotation.

As I said, seems obvious, but glad I know I can say so to those who differ.

Another Q, starting with U3 at 2nd and no chasing,
Is it ever appropriate or expected for U3 to cover 3rd?
If so, if and when?

Cecil, I know you know this, but: If U3 is at 2nd, we have R1. With no chase, PU should rotate to 3B for a potential play, U1 should rotate home if PU goes to 3rd, and U3 should pick up the batter-runner and R1 if she stop at 2B. It is not expected that U3 should have to make a call at 3B. We always want to rotate in the opposite direction of the base runners.

Now, is it possible that the plate umpire falls down, and U3 reads this and deviates to make the call? Yes, and that is an appropriate time for U3 to bust a*s and get the best possible angle. U1 is too far away to have credibility here.

My Google-fu is weak this morning, but somewhere out on Youtube there is a video of HP umpire Mike Bartling making a call on the batter-runner at 2B. Find that one in the manual. :D

I was pretty sure of that, but I have not been U3 for a while and want to get all of it in my head. :cool:

There are a couple of possible reasons for this to happen.

In 2 man, if the BU stays foul ground on a play on the BR at 1st, and the ball gets by, PU is expected to bust up the middle to take 2nd.

In 3 man, if both U1 and U3 chase, or if U3 chases but U1 gets pinned, then, again, a good PU will pick up the BR at 2nd.

MB would certainly fit the description of a good PU.

Is that in all sanctions?

IMO, yes, it's just good crew teamwork. Of course, ASA/USA mechanics indicate that if the base umpire in 2-man goes to foul ground for a call at 1B, Cthulhu will emerge from his watery lair and spread madness over the face of the earth. :D I kid, I kid....kind of.

I meant, by the book! :rolleyes:

By the book, USA/ASA doesn't acknowledge that a BU might EVER need to stay foul ground to avoid interfering with a play at 1st, or to see the play develop; therefore, there is no approved mechanic to address that.

Now, having said that, if it actually happens, PU would get great kudos for covering 2nd as an adjustment.

NCAA makes it a standard coverage if/when it happens (with a perceived higher level BU making the decision to stay foul ground, mind you). I would expect MB to react on that basis, no matter what the game on YouTube represented.

As I thought and why I asked.

As does USSSA.