Subs
 

USA and NFHS
If a team has no more eligible substitutes available for re entry can one of them be used to replace and injured player?

No, a sub can only ever occupy 1 spot in the lineup. If they have no available subs the team has to go short handed.

How about if the team only has 9 players for a game and a batter gets drilled with a pitched ball and is unable to walk? Can the last batter run for them that particular inning, or do they have to take an out immediately?

I'm sure some rec leagues have rules allowing such things but if you go by straight rule sets, no.

Isn't there a rule that allows a temporary "substitute" for an injured runner to complete the time on base?

Looks like USSSA does, but dont know of any other rule set that has that provision. Dont do much in the way of USSSA so dont keep up on their rules.

I thought that there was a rule in some code ( not sure which one) that in the case of an injury the opposing coach could choose one of the players to enter the game.
Then again I am not even sure if this was in baseball or softball.

LL has that provision

The reason I asked that is because I've seen it happen twice in ASA (USA) games in the past couple years. Once with one of my players, once with the opposing team. Both times it was a hot fastball to the ankle, and both times, the coaches were very generous and openly gave the green light for the last batted out runner to take the injured player's place on base. That's what we did the first time, and the officials allowed it. Second time around, the officials were not so ready to allow such substitution, and we all stood there scratching our heads while the officiating crew stood over my player trying to figure out if they should call her out, how badly was she really hurt, etc. I didn't want mommy and daddy climbing my case, so I told them to just call her out if they had to. After several more minutes of further procrastination (in a timed game), she "toughened up" and hobbled out to the base even though I was telling her to stay in the dugout. If USA doesn't have a provision, they certainly need to adopt one.

Just because some umpire allowed it to happen doesnt mean it was in the rules. And whoever said the rules of the game should be fair? There are all kinds of ways coaches could use that rule to their benefit. Slow girl on base, oh, she suddenly has a hurt ankle and cant run. Of course the last out just happens to be the fastest girl on the team. There is also a rule about if the player leaves the game due to injury and forces the team to go short handed, that player may not return to play.

It is indeed a slippery slope. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that probably 90% of the umpires out there would talk to both sides and allow another runner if the kid truly is unable to continue. The alternative would sound something like this from behind the backstop--- "You mean you are gonna call my baby out after that girl tried to kill her with that ball?"

Where's the popcorn? :D

Purely rec league I can see where umpires may allow it to happen. Competitive league, Im officiating the game under the rule set I was hired to do the game under. I will not make any modifications to that rule set, even if both coaches agree. I have seen it happen, a coach initially agrees to allow an infraction to be made thinking it will have no effect, then they end up losing and suddenly the official is at fault for allowing the rule to be broken.

I don't have a book for either in front of me but both utrip and NF have a provision that allows a replacement runner in the case of injury.

Out

This is fascinating. Thanks for the replies. Interesting that NF and Utrip apparently have a provision for a replacement, but ASA/USA does not.

I gotta ask--have any of you ever been forced to call an injured batter out in this situation? It seems it would be more likely to happen in ASA/USA and USSSA than NFHSA due to the fact that travel teams don't stack their rosters very deep. One of these days, we'll have a famous YouTube video of this scenario? :eek:

PONY also has a provision to replace an injured or ill player with the last player removed from the lineup if they have no eligible subs

In rec leagues when everyone bats there are often provisions to replace an injured player because when everyone bats, you have no sub. There are boundaries around this so it doesn't get abused too much.

One related situation that happened to me when i was still coaching: Batting 9, my batter got drilled in the knee and was seriously hurt. I told Blue i needed to get her treated in the dugout and i would do a "dead-ball substitution" and put an eligible sub on 1st base. He agreed. Then the other coach complained that the injured girl never touched first base so the umpire called my girl out! (Dead Ball Substitute - ASA Rule 4.6.D)

Even though i told ump before i made the change that I was doing a dead ball substitution and he agreed, he said he was going to let it slide but because the other coach complained, he would now have to follow the rules. He didn't know the rules. No UIC available at this field to help out. Only time I got to use the rule as a coach and ump could not follow it. I have allowed it a couple of times as an ump.

For NFHS, there is indeed a provision to allow a previous batter not on base to act as a temporary runner.

I'm not typing in the whole rule, but reference:

3-3-8 a:d

and

4-3-1g

When you said "batting 9" does that mean you only had 9 players in the game? Or did you have legal substitutes available?

If the former, under USA rule, you couldn't do that anyway. If the latter, that would be fine. The runner can come out of the dugout and proceed directly to first base and becomes a substitute for the injured player.

This is not true for NFHS. From the case book:

3.3.8 SITUATION C:

B2 slides into home plate and rolls her ankle. She leaves the game in the fourth inning. The team has no legal substitutes. The team plays short-handed until the sixth inning when the player who was injured is now ready to come back into the game.

RULING: When B2 left the lineup and game, she had re-entry eligibility. She can re-enter the game. (3-3-8d)

3-3-8d says "Once a team has gone short-handed if an eligible player becomes available, that player may fill the empty space in the lineup.", so if the injured player is still eligible, she may re-enter.


Speaking NFHS.

We need to be careful here in this discussion. The OP's post was open-ended, "If a team has no more eligible substitutes available for re entry can one of them be used to replace and injured player?"

To the general question, the answer is "no", especially since the question is worded such that it could be inferred he was asking about using a player who is no longer an eligible substitute.

To the more narrow, specific situation, where an injured runner (not just a player in general) cannot continue, she can be replaced by the previous batter not on base (not the last out, and not a bench player who no longer has any re-entry rights) to complete her base running for that particular half inning only. After that, the team plays short-handed.

NFHS Rule 3 Section 3
ART. 8 . . . If a team is playing with 9 (F.P.), 10 (S.P. or F. P. if DP/FLEX is used), or 11 (S.P. if an EP is used) and there are no available substitutes when a runner advancing on an awarded base or after reaching base is unable to continue:

a. The previous batter not on base is allowed to replace that player as a temporary runner until she is put out, scores or the half-inning ends.

b. When the player who could not continue is scheduled to bat, an out shall be called.

c. When the half-inning ends and the team assumes a defensive position, refer to 4-3-1g.

d. Once a team has gone short-handed if an eligible player becomes available, that player may fill the empty space in the lineup.

Thanks for all of the replies.
Yes, my question was if there were no more eligible subs to put in, such as the case of a 12 girl roster but each girl has entered and re entered and are no longer eligible.
However since it came up suppose a hire hit a home run and is injured running the bases and can't complete her trot and there are no eligible subs to run for her?
Is ther a provision in NFHS and USA that takes this into consideration?

Uploaded on May 5, 2008


Western Oregon Sara Tucholsky hit her first career HR with the help from Central Washington - ultimate sportsmanship. She tore her ACL running back to 1st as she missed it initially. Ump she if didn't run the bases by herself, the HR wouldn't count. If her teammates touched her, it would be void.
The opposing team saw her pain and did the unexpected, they picked her up and helped her touch each base.
Central Washington lost the game, 4-2
Sportsmanship at its best.

9 players in the lineup and available subs on the bench.

If that had happened in a USA/NFHS game a substitute runner could have been sent in since it was a dead ball situation.

Same in NCAA. Those umpires kicked it :)