I was just wondering what you guys all thought about a coach asking the catcher if the last pitch was a stike or not. (after it was called a ball) Maybe not directly but asking where it was, or something similar. As a coach I would never put my catcher in that position with the umpire but I do see it once in awhile. Brian

You are correct. That's pretty weak "coach speak" just to aggravate an umpire, and it puts the intelligent catcher in a tough spot.

The coach may ask the question, but it is the catcher's answer, or lack of response, that may affect the relationship between the plate ump and F2, and the relationship between the plate and the zone.

It would be a better conversation to have in the dugout.

mick

As a coach at the varisty level I have asked my catcher this before, usually out of frustration if I think the zone is inconsistent, which is not very often. The coach doesn't have the best angle on the field when it comes to balls and strikes and when I ask I am just trying to get an idea of the zone. I usually don't ask during the inning, but will talk to my catcher when she comes in, and make the adjustment, like setting up more on the plate if we aren't getting the outside pitch.

I have also told her to always agree with the umpire. If the ump says it was outside, then tell me it was outside, not I thought it was good but he said it was out. Another thing I tell her is to never turn and look at the ump when asking. Just keep looking straight ahead and ask.

But, then again, I am pretty easy going during games and have never had any problems with umpires.

It happens from time to time. I don't let it bother me unless it becomes frequent. A smart catcher will back up the umpire (whether she believes it or not).

On the time or two that I can remember it becoming frequent, at the next casual opportunity (i.e. passing during the half inning), I asked the coach if he is aware that arguing balls and strikes is against the rules. A mystified look followed, but the questions to the catcher magically stopped.

Good point. Sometimes as umpires we tend to take questions or comments from the coach at other than face value.

While asking in the dugout is better, it is possible the question is a legitimate request for coaching information.

Just like telling the pitcher "good pitch" on a called ball doesn't mean, necessarily, the coach is telling the umpire indirectly it should have been called a strike. Maybe the pitch was exactly what was called, but the batter just didn't go for it.

gsf23,
I am not surprised that you have few problems.
mick

The first time I saw this happen, the PU jerked off his mask and aggresively walked toward the coach telling her that if she wanted to know where a pitch was, she should direct the question to him! The coach was definitely unhappy with some close pitches that had been called balls. The problem here was that the PU was very confrontational and everybody in the ball park heard him "admonish" the coach. I don't think that this is the way to handle it.

I think that I would politely approach the coach and tell him or her that they should ask me if they wanted to know where a pitch missed. By asking the catcher, the coach is placing the catcher in a no-win position, she has to choose to piss off her coach or the umpire.

If the coach asking about pitches becomes a constant thing, then Tom's suggestion about casually letting the coach know about the penalty for arguing balls and strikes sounds good.

All posts thus far have been very good, and probably reflect the attitude of most umpires, and coaches. I had one catcher, when asked by her coach, reply, "She didnt throw it" (meaning pitch coach had called).


gsf23.....

I will be first in line to call all of your games!

I definitely dislike the coach asking, unless they are obviously trying to help the pitcher. But I don't care very much if the catcher agrees with me when the coach or pitcher asks. I know I miss a few and I'd just as soon know which ones. I certainly hope it never affects a future call. But if the coach gets obnoxious or the pitcher is too persistent, that's different. Also, I want an honest answer from the catcher in the rare case that I ask her opinion. Players are often not as obsessed with winning/losing or every umpire's call as coaches.

Cecil, if you ask her and she wants to tell you what she thinks quietly, that's alright by me. I just don't want her yelling it out for everyone to hear. Also, when I do ask it is usually because we have called for a pitch like Low and Away, if a ball I would like to know why, was it low but on a corner, was it outside but okay on knee level or was it both low and out. Now our catcher can adjust her setup to try to get that call.

I handle this a little differently. I do not really want the coach asking the catcher, I want the coach to ask me. And as I watch a few of the warmup pitches in the first inning, I talk with the catcher & let her know - among other things - that when the coach asks me, she is to answer and that I will have told "If I ball anything close, I will let you know where it was. If either the pitcher or your coach asks, you answer."

Steve M

No, this one is way too easy. :)

Yes, I meant quietly between the catcher and me, even though rare.
As I only call "ball" or "strike" and very rarely comment further, Steve's suggestion would not apply (to me). Except for high pitches, the catcher can see as well as I can. Of course, even the coach should be able to tell whether a belt-high "ball" was inside or outside, if actually watching.
I don't like the implication of "our catcher can adjust her setup to try to get that call". I'm looking at the ball passing the plate, not the mitt.

And I mean our catcher setting up for our pitcher. If we set up low and out, our pitcher hits the mitt and a ball is called because it was low but not out, then our catcher knows to set up in the same spot, but bring the glove up a bit, If out but not low then we can leave the glove where it is and slide in a little more. That's what I meant by adjusting to get the call not for your benefit but so our pitcher can hit the right spot.

Mike - I admire your restraint!!!

Great.

"The problem here was that the PU was very confrontational and everybody in the ball park heard him "admonish" the coach. I don't think that this is the way to handle it."

The coach asked for it. By asking this "question", the coach was showing-up the PU. This is a very childish act by coaches. Catchers should be taught to politely ask the PU what was wrong with the pitch, "So I can adjust my set-up".

Bob

This would be a can of worms that I would not open.

If the coach yells out the question from the dugout to the catcher, they are trying to show up the ump and I consider they are crossing the line.

If the catcher ignores it the first time, I usually do too. If the catcher gives an inappropriate, smart-alec answer, I will usually say to the catcher, "Why do y'all trying to start something?" I presume the catch and coach speak in between innings since that often ends it.

If happens multiple times, I will yell at the coach in a loud admonishing, corrective, controlling tone, "Knock it off." It usually either works or helps the coach get to their destination early.

How was Venus?

made me a little slow on the draw :)

All right, you two, ...
 

...Care to explain? :confused:

Re: All right, you two, ...
 

Do you mean the moderator had not noticed the long absence of one of our more outspoken members?
But then, I didn't get Mike's "too easy" restraint earlier. :confused:

Re: Re: All right, you two, ...
 

Thank you.

At least we know Mick is on the job..

Here's to you. http://www.spao.de/pict/smilies/beerchug.gif

glen

BTW Bob, [bluezebra] http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/...s/elephant.gif This was as close to a zebra as I could get. [bet I know
who will come up with one though.]

I am curious! Did you go to San Diego on the weekend
the coach on the other board was looking for an umpire?

glen

Not completely blue, but it's the best I could do... :cool:

http://www.zebrapen.com/images/zebra_head_mouse.gif

... although maybe Bob will like this image better...

http://www.zebramats.com/jpgs/zegar.gif

Now where did you come up with that....You scan and
then copy and post????

That is cooooool. http://www.spao.de/pict/smilies/biggthumpup.gif

glen

Years ago I was the bench coach and scorekeeper for a guy who was a terrific coach as far as knowing and teaching the game and developing a winning team. He was superb at positioning our defense. However, he was the WORST coach most of our local umps ever had to deal with – loud, confrontational, even abusive. I know he enjoyed being a jerk. He embarrassed the rest of us.

He would regularly put our catchers (his daughter was one of them) in a tough spot. “Where was that?” Sometimes he wanted the real answer, but he had a sign – smacking is fist into his palm – that meant they were supposed to say, “Right in there.” Then he would go into his towel-slinging act. (He didn’t always finish the game with us.) The punch line … he was a former NCAA baseball umpire.

Yuck! What in the h-e--double hockey sticks was his problem?


http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/jab.gif http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk...y_watchout.gif