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-   -   Thrown ball INT ?? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/101689-thrown-ball-int.html)

CecilOne Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:06am
Thrown ball INT ??
 
I know we have discussed this before, but a new example, just to clarify.

Bases loaded, batted (bunted ?) ball along 1st base line, fielded by F3 in front of 1st; who throws home for the force.
BUT, the throw hits the BR, deflecting the ball.

1 – Is it INT?
2 – If it is, why not INT whenever a throw hits a runner?

Primarily an ASA question; please add what you want about NCAA, NFHS or other differences.

RKBUmp Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:19am
Not unless the runner did something intentional to interfere with the throw, and the running lane only applies to plays at 1st base so no factor in the play as described.

CecilOne Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 991363)
Not unless the runner did something intentional to interfere with the throw, and the running lane only applies to plays at 1st base so no factor in the play as described.
Where is "intentional" in the book? I don't see that word in 8.2.F or 8.7/J.

Is it just that any INT has to be an "act"?

CecilOne Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 991363)
the running lane only applies to plays at 1st base so no factor in the play as described.
Obviously the running lane is irrelevant, please leave it out of comments.

jmkupka Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:53am
"only applies to plays at 1st base"

and, may I add, RKB, on a throw from the direction of HP (as opposed to up 3B line, and a throw pulling F3 toward HP)

Big Slick Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 991362)
I know we have discussed this before, but a new example, just to clarify.

Bases loaded, batted (bunted ?) ball along 1st base line, fielded by F3 in front of 1st; who throws home for the force.
BUT, the throw hits the BR, deflecting the ball.

1 – Is it INT?
2 – If it is, why not INT whenever a throw hits a runner?

Primarily an ASA question; please add what you want about NCAA, NFHS or other differences.
It isn't in any code.

Just as you wouldn't call a runner from first to second for interference on a throw (from F3) that hits her in the back.

Interfering with a thrown ball and being hit by a thrown ball are different.

For reference, I was part of a similar play this summer (not a bunt, hit to F3 in front of the bag), generating a lot of discussion in the umpire locker room.

Rich Ives Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 991365)
Where is "intentional" in the book? I don't see that word in 8.2.F or 8.7/J.

Is it just that any INT has to be an "act"?
This isn't kickball. You can't plunk the runner to get an out.

RKBUmp Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 991365)
Where is "intentional" in the book? I don't see that word in 8.2.F or 8.7/J.

Is it just that any INT has to be an "act"?
Intentional isn't specified, but as you stated the runner must commit some act that actually interferes with the throw and simply running the bases as they are suppose to is not an act of interference. So short of doing something intentional such as reaching out with a hand to block the throw it is nothing.

And as for my comment about the running lane, I only mentioned it because discussions about throws between home and 1st or 1st and home always seems to bring up some discussion about the running lane.

Rich Ives Mon Oct 03, 2016 01:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Slick (Post 991370)
It isn't in any code.

Just as you wouldn't call a runner from first to second for interference on a throw (from F3) that hits her in the back.

Interfering with a thrown ball and being hit by a thrown ball are different.

For reference, I was part of a similar play this summer (not a bunt, hit to F3 in front of the bag), generating a lot of discussion in the umpire locker room.
NCAA 12.2.13 and 12.8.5 (2014-2015 book) both have intent required on a thrown ball.

IRISHMAFIA Mon Oct 03, 2016 01:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 991371)
This isn't kickball. You can't plunk the runner to get an out.
Couldn't convince me of that considering the plays I've seen in NCAA the past couple of years.

Big Slick Mon Oct 03, 2016 02:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 991374)
NCAA 12.2.13 and 12.8.5 (2014-2015 book) both have intent required on a thrown ball.
Meaning it isn't Interference in any code, answering Cecil's question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 991362)
I know we have discussed this before, but a new example, just to clarify.

Bases loaded, batted (bunted ?) ball along 1st base line, fielded by F3 in front of 1st; who throws home for the force.
BUT, the throw hits the BR, deflecting the ball.

1 – Is it INT?
No, his play is NOT interference in any code.


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