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Old Fri Jun 10, 2016, 12:15am
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Auto-out and end of game

Full disclosure: I was a player not an umpire in this game, but I will do my best to avoid the obvious bias that comes with being a player as much as I can...

ASA Men's slow pitch, church league
Situation: Bottom of the 7th inning; Visitors lead 11-10; 1 out, runner on first; 9th batter (me) at the plate with an auto-out to follow in the 10th spot.

I hit a ground ball to the shortstop who flips it to the second baseman for the second out of the inning. The scorekeeper almost immediately announces "automatic out, ball game", however neither umpire has called dead ball (and they shouldn't have because I hadn't touched first yet). Without slowing down, I hit first base and continue to 2nd base expected to be tagged out when I got there, but I had nothing to lose. To my surprise, the defense was all walking toward the center of the infield to celebrate and started mocking me for sprinting around the bases even though the game was over. Eventually a couple of players from the defense realized that neither umpire had called for a dead ball and that I might actually be about to score the tying run, but I made it home before anyone attempted to make a play on me.

So the question is, what do you do in this situation if you have the joy of finding yourself in this situation? I'll wait for a few responses and let everyone know what happened.
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Old Fri Jun 10, 2016, 12:31am
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there was a fast pitch case presented on the ASA website in Mar 2016. Very same situation. If you scored before they tagged you, you are safe and game is tied. Call your wife, tell her you'll be late because you are playing extra innings. Here's the case study. I'll let it do the explaining.


Play: A team is playing shorthanded and taking an out in the position for the missing player. It’s a tie game in the sixth inning with one out. R1 is on third base and B3 is at bat with B4 the open spot for the automatic out. B3 hits a long fly ball to F8 that is caught. R1 tags up on the catch and scores after the second out is recorded. The umpire disallows the run because B4, the next batter, is automatically out once the second out was recorded, thus being the third out of the inning. Correct Ruling?
Ruling: Our shorthanded rule was put in place to allow players to play games and reduce the number of forfeits due to a player’s injuries, illness or lack of players available at the start or to continue a game. An out would be recorded when the vacant position in the batting order is scheduled to bat. This out is not simultaneous with any other put out. Prior to the shorthanded out being enforced, the offensive team has the opportunity to return to full strength should an eligible player arrive. Rule 1 Definition; Turn at Bat: When a player enters the batter’s box and continues until the player is substituted for, put out or becomes a batter-runner.
By allowing the third out to be simultaneous with the second out when the absent position in the batting order is due up we would be violating two sections of Rule 1 Definition. The correct ruling in this play would be: allow all playing action to cease, call time, allow the run to count and call for the next batter. If the next batter is the vacant position in the batting order then make the third out call.
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Old Fri Jun 10, 2016, 07:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomerSooner View Post
Full disclosure: I was a player not an umpire in this game, but I will do my best to avoid the obvious bias that comes with being a player as much as I can...

ASA Men's slow pitch, church league
Situation: Bottom of the 7th inning; Visitors lead 11-10; 1 out, runner on first; 9th batter (me) at the plate with an auto-out to follow in the 10th spot.

I hit a ground ball to the shortstop who flips it to the second baseman for the second out of the inning. The scorekeeper almost immediately announces "automatic out, ball game", however neither umpire has called dead ball (and they shouldn't have because I hadn't touched first yet). Without slowing down, I hit first base and continue to 2nd base expected to be tagged out when I got there, but I had nothing to lose. To my surprise, the defense was all walking toward the center of the infield to celebrate and started mocking me for sprinting around the bases even though the game was over. Eventually a couple of players from the defense realized that neither umpire had called for a dead ball and that I might actually be about to score the tying run, but I made it home before anyone attempted to make a play on me.

So the question is, what do you do in this situation if you have the joy of finding yourself in this situation? I'll wait for a few responses and let everyone know what happened.
At the end of the game, it is a smart move. At the end of any other half inning, it is one of the dumbest moves a player can make.

AFA your play, run counts, play on. If the umpire opted for something different, I would consider a protest.
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Old Fri Jun 10, 2016, 10:50am
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Run scores. Next inning.
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Old Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:00am
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
At the end of any other half inning, it is one of the dumbest moves a player can make.
Assuming no available player to cover the out slot; just because starting the next inning with an out if runner is put out, or what am I missing?
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Old Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:02am
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Assuming no available player to cover the out slot; just because starting the next inning with an out if runner is put out, or what am I missing?
You're missing nothing. That's exactly why one would not take a silly risk like the OP in any inning but the last.
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Old Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:09am
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
You're missing nothing. That's exactly why one would not take a silly risk like the OP in any inning but the last.
Or if you were fairly certain that another player would become available before your team makes 3 defensive outs.
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Old Sat Jun 11, 2016, 07:57am
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As promised, here is what happened:

The umpires did not allow my run because they felt the scorekeeper's "ball game" announcement over the speaker put the defense at a disadvantage and without that they would have been able to put me out at second base (because the 2nd out had already been made there and all the second baseman would have had to do was hold the ball and wait for me to get there). After touching home, I started yelling (not at anyone, just increased volume to be heard over the noise of the defensive team's celebration and their crowd yelling/laughing at me) that nobody called dead ball so my run counts. I asked the FU who was walking toward our dugout (1st base side) to leave if either of them had called dead ball or ball game, and if so why didn't they call it louder so I didn't waste my effort running the bases. His response was "I was just admiring your dedication". I just responded, "I'm glad you enjoyed it and that it wasn't a complete waste", but it was everything I could do not to go nuts on him for that comment. I grabbed my gear and left because I wasn't about to become the guy that makes it on YouTube over a church league softball game (that and the umpire in me knows that behavior would reflect negatively on me as an umpire).

From this point I'm adding secondhand information I found out after the fact from a couple of guys on the team. The umpires went up to the scorekeeper's booth to discuss the situation, and since that is where the supervisor's office is my teammates also went up to see if they could protest. Obviously given the fact that everyone had left the field and several involved people had already started leaving the complex (myself and most of other team), protesting wasn't an option. The umpires acknowledged that neither of them called dead ball but said their hands were tied because of the scorekeeper's announcement. According to my teammates, the supervisor openly scolded the scorekeeper and told her that her announcements should be limited to the inning at the start of each half inning. He took the umpires into his office, but before the door was shut he was heard telling the umpires that they get paid to be in control of the game and the scorekeeper's announcements don't dictate anything.
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Old Sat Jun 11, 2016, 08:06am
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Originally Posted by BoomerSooner View Post
As promised, here is what happened:

The umpires did not allow my run because they felt the scorekeeper's "ball game" announcement over the speaker put the defense at a disadvantage and without that they would have been able to put me out at second base (because the 2nd out had already been made there and all the second baseman would have had to do was hold the ball and wait for me to get there). After touching home, I started yelling (not at anyone, just increased volume to be heard over the noise of the defensive team's celebration and their crowd yelling/laughing at me) that nobody called dead ball so my run counts. I asked the FU who was walking toward our dugout (1st base side) to leave if either of them had called dead ball or ball game, and if so why didn't they call it louder so I didn't waste my effort running the bases. His response was "I was just admiring your dedication". I just responded, "I'm glad you enjoyed it and that it wasn't a complete waste", but it was everything I could do not to go nuts on him for that comment. I grabbed my gear and left because I wasn't about to become the guy that makes it on YouTube over a church league softball game (that and the umpire in me knows that behavior would reflect negatively on me as an umpire).

From this point I'm adding secondhand information I found out after the fact from a couple of guys on the team. The umpires went up to the scorekeeper's booth to discuss the situation, and since that is where the supervisor's office is my teammates also went up to see if they could protest. Obviously given the fact that everyone had left the field and several involved people had already started leaving the complex (myself and most of other team), protesting wasn't an option. The umpires acknowledged that neither of them called dead ball but said their hands were tied because of the scorekeeper's announcement. According to my teammates, the supervisor openly scolded the scorekeeper and told her that her announcements should be limited to the inning at the start of each half inning. He took the umpires into his office, but before the door was shut he was heard telling the umpires that they get paid to be in control of the game and the scorekeeper's announcements don't dictate anything.
The supervisor is correct, the scorekeeper has no status concerning anything that happens on the field. Shame on the umpires for not controlling the game.
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Old Sun Jun 12, 2016, 07:57pm
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Why in the world does the scorekeeper have a microphone? I have never seen that.
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Old Sun Jun 12, 2016, 09:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwashburn View Post
Why in the world does the scorekeeper have a microphone? I have never seen that.
I think it is mostly to communicate with the field for things like requesting a lineup from each team 15 minutes prior to game time. The scorekeeper will also use the microphone to double-check to see if a team is going to use the same lineup when playing a double-header without another game between their two games. It saves us the trouble of running another lineup card up to the scorekeeper.

Usually the scorekeepers limit announcements to the inning and if the scoreboard is malfunctioning will give the score and time remaining. Some scorekeepers will announce the first 3 batters of each inning, which I have mixed feelings about, but that isn't that big an issue. Until Thursday night, I had never heard a scorekeeper announce "ball game". It was the last game of the night, so I suspect she was anxious to remind everyone of the impending auto-out so she could be done with her duties.
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Old Mon Jun 13, 2016, 02:56pm
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If the scorekeeper is not a game official, what he says or doesn't say has no bearing anyway.

If the scorekeeper is a game official, then an incorrect "call" can be corrected under rule 10.

Regardless, does shouting "ball game" have any standing in the rules?
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Old Mon Jun 13, 2016, 03:21pm
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Originally Posted by jwwashburn View Post
Why in the world does the scorekeeper have a microphone? I have never seen that.
Many a time I have been the scorekeeper and the PA announcer.
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Old Mon Jun 13, 2016, 05:48pm
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Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
Regardless, does shouting "ball game" have any standing in the rules?
No, no, no, nO, NO! Yet, you wouldn't believe how many alleged adults who have argued that once stated, it cannot be undone.
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Old Tue Jun 14, 2016, 08:24am
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
No, no, no, nO, NO! Yet, you wouldn't believe how many alleged adults who have argued that once stated, it cannot be undone.
Do they know you can't undo something which can't be done, i.e., a phrase with no verb.
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