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-   -   Do you call OBS everytime? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/101272-do-you-call-obs-everytime.html)

charliej47 Thu Apr 21, 2016 01:51pm

Do you call OBS everytime?
 
Inattentive F3 hinder B1 round the base going to 2nd. No play is mad as she goes into second base.

Do you call OBS every time you see it?

I tend to do so and then explain if asked.:eek:

Andy Thu Apr 21, 2016 02:09pm

Call it....every time....

Insane Blue Thu Apr 21, 2016 02:34pm

Agreed I call it every time that the runner is Obstructed

SNIPERBBB Thu Apr 21, 2016 03:23pm

Call it early and often, hopefully they stop after the first time or two.

The real problem that I've had is explaining to the OC why your not giving extra bases.

teebob21 Thu Apr 21, 2016 04:50pm

Every. Single. Time.

This is actually a bit of a pet peeve of mine. I have worked with a few officials over the years that believe that calling infractions that "don't impact the game" is a waste of time and signals, and it "draws unnecessary attention to us umpires". These umpires typically draw enough attention to themselves simply because they are usually honestly not very good umpires. (Offtopic: These are frequently the same officials who consistently refuse to enforce the pitching rule(s).)

I 100% disagree with their philosophy, because (1) we have no way of knowing in advance which infractions "impact" the future, and (2) the book gives us no rule support for *not* calling things that the book says to call. What is the point of a ruleset and organized leagues if we're just going to "not call that?"

What we permit, we promote. If we want the fielders to move to a legal position without the ball, call them for obstructing. If we want the pitchers to pitch legally, call them for an IP when they don't. Want NCAA coaches to stop halting the game to argue judgment calls? Warn them when they come out with the first silly request, and toss them after the second (per the new rule).

The officials who keep the tough, but good calls in their pockets to avoid dealing with controversy/conflict are the same officials that breed controversy for those of us with the guts pride of professionalism to make them. End mini-rant. :)

IRISHMAFIA Thu Apr 21, 2016 07:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliej47 (Post 986572)
Inattentive F3 hinder B1 round the base going to 2nd. No play is mad as she goes into second base.

Do you call OBS every time you see it?

I tend to do so and then explain if asked.:eek:

Without fail

Tru_in_Blu Thu Apr 21, 2016 09:22pm

I worked a middle school game today with both teams that played surprisingly solid defense.

The F3 for one team, however, while straddling the first base bag, would drop her back knee in front of the base before she would catch a pick-off throw from F2. So as the runner tried to dive back to the base, it was blocked by F3's right foot to her right knee.

I must have called OBS 8 or 9 times. The girl's coach asked about it, but if he spoke to her about it, she didn't change her method of blocking the base.

Never did have to call any OBS on base hits. Both F3s cleared the base for runners to advance.

IRISHMAFIA Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 986587)
I worked a middle school game today with both teams that played surprisingly solid defense.

The F3 for one team, however, while straddling the first base bag, would drop her back knee in front of the base before she would catch a pick-off throw from F2. So as the runner tried to dive back to the base, it was blocked by F3's right foot to her right knee.

I must have called OBS 8 or 9 times. The girl's coach asked about it, but if he spoke to her about it, she didn't change her method of blocking the base.

Never did have to call any OBS on base hits. Both F3s cleared the base for runners to advance.

That coach is not a good coach especially if he is willing to allow his player to risk injury by intentionally violating a rule.

charliej47 Fri Apr 22, 2016 01:18pm

Last year I was explaining this to a coach and stated, "if you continuously violate a rule, you can be ejected".

I explained that someone who willingly violates a rule poses a problem that has be be corrected.

CecilOne Mon Apr 25, 2016 08:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu (Post 986587)
I worked a middle school game today with both teams that played surprisingly solid defense.

The F3 for one team, however, while straddling the first base bag, would drop her back knee in front of the base before she would catch a pick-off throw from F2. So as the runner tried to dive back to the base, it was blocked by F3's right foot to her right knee.

I must have called OBS 8 or 9 times. The girl's coach asked about it, but if he spoke to her about it, she didn't change her method of blocking the base.

Never did have to call any OBS on base hits. Both F3s cleared the base for runners to advance.

Even the "straddle" can be obstruction, anything that impedes the runner to any part of the base.

charliej47 Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 986708)
Even the "straddle" can be obstruction, anything that impedes the runner to any part of the base.

I was doing a sectional game and the "home" F3 would straddle 1st base every time. I called OBS at least twice before her coach ever asked why.

I explained and his statement was " we've been doing this all season, why are you calling it now?"

All I said was "Coach I didn't do you other games so I don't know what you did."

Big Slick Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliej47 (Post 986618)
Last year I was explaining this to a coach and stated, "if you continuously violate a rule, you can be ejected".

Please cite the NFHS rule that allows you to make such a statement. For example:

You would eject a pitcher who continuously leaps?
You would eject a first baseman who continually is in foul territory at the time of the pitch?
You would eject a player who continuously leave the base prior to the pitch? (ok, maybe 4 times a game)

Big Slick Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 986708)
Even the "straddle" can be obstruction, anything that impedes the runner to any part of the base.

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliej47 (Post 986711)
I was doing a sectional game and the "home" F3 would straddle 1st base every time. I called OBS at least twice before her coach ever asked why.

I explained and his statement was " we've been doing this all season, why are you calling it now?"

All I said was "Coach I didn't do you other games so I don't know what you did."

A "straddle" in a of itself is not obstruction, neither is "blocking the base without the ball." For obstruction to happen, the runner actually has to be hindered or impeded.

SNIPERBBB Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slick (Post 986720)
A "straddle" in a of itself is not obstruction, neither is "blocking the base without the ball." For obstruction to happen, the runner actually has to be hindered or impeded.

There are some conflicting opinions as to whether you wait for contact to happen to rule OBS or if the presence of a defender blocking the path causes a player to slowdown or reroute as obstruction.

CecilOne Mon Apr 25, 2016 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slick (Post 986720)
A "straddle" in a of itself is not obstruction, neither is "blocking the base without the ball." For obstruction to happen, the runner actually has to be hindered or impeded.

I said "can be", as opposed to the knee down described above. Of course, some impeding is needed.

Big Slick Mon Apr 25, 2016 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 986722)
There are some conflicting opinions as to whether you wait for contact to happen to rule OBS or if the presence of a defender blocking the path causes a player to slowdown or reroute as obstruction.

If the runner slows down or reroute, then you do have obstruction. That is being hindered. However, absent a slowdown or reroute, the defenders positioning is not in and of itself obstruction.

CecilOne Mon Apr 25, 2016 01:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 986722)
There are some conflicting opinions as to whether you wait for contact to happen to rule OBS or if the presence of a defender blocking the path causes a player to slowdown or reroute as obstruction.

If you think contact is needed, you are wrong. "slowdown or reroute " is being hindered or impeded.

SNIPERBBB Mon Apr 25, 2016 01:26pm

I didn't say there needed to be contact. I said theres conflicting opinions on whether the presence of the defender is enough of there has to be contact.

You see more of the former because umpires aren't watching the runners enough to know what they had to do in order to reach the next base.

youngump Mon Apr 25, 2016 02:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 986729)
I didn't say there needed to be contact. I said theres conflicting opinions on whether the presence of the defender is enough of there has to be contact.

You see more of the former because umpires aren't watching the runners enough to know what they had to do in order to reach the next base.

By conflicting opinions, I just want to make sure that you mean: there are those who are right and there are those who conflict with them. (The first group would be those who say the runner has to be impeded, and the latter group consists of those who say the defender being there is enough or that contact is required). I'm not sure what the point of saying that there are conflicting opinions is. The rule is clear.

IRISHMAFIA Mon Apr 25, 2016 08:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 986722)
There are some conflicting opinions as to whether you wait for contact to happen to rule OBS or if the presence of a defender blocking the path causes a player to slowdown or reroute as obstruction.

No conflicting opinions here. An umpire who waits for contact isn't doing his/her job.

CecilOne Tue Apr 26, 2016 06:57am

1) Fielder just being anywhere is not OBS.
2) Contact is not required.
3) Hindering or impeding is needed.

CecilOne Tue Apr 26, 2016 07:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 986729)
I didn't say there needed to be contact. I said theres conflicting opinions on whether the presence of the defender is enough of there has to be contact.

You see more of the former because umpires aren't watching the runners enough to know what they had to do in order to reach the next base.

Sorry I was too abrupt.:o
I should have said "Those who think contact is needed (not you) are incorrect.

bsnalex Tue Apr 26, 2016 07:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliej47 (Post 986572)
Inattentive F3 hinder B1 round the base going to 2nd. No play is mad as she goes into second base.

Do you call OBS every time you see it?

I tend to do so and then explain if asked.:eek:

I don't know what the issue is here. OBS is OBS. Call it when you see it. If they ask, tell them why. If it's repetitive, they'll get the message eventually.

charliej47 Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:01am

The reason I started this, that I have gotten a lot os static over the years as I am constantly calling OBS when I see it.

A lot of my partners question why when the runner does not try for more bases.

I have tried to explain the ASA training where OBS was taught and explained as to how to apply it when Jerry Fick gave the class in Cincinnati a couple of years ago.

I have noticed that if the runner is not trying, most of my partners will not call it.

I have called it a lot when they would not as I saw it as OBS and they didn't.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliej47 (Post 986765)
The reason I started this, that I have gotten a lot os static over the years as I am constantly calling OBS when I see it.

A lot of my partners question why when the runner does not try for more bases.

I have tried to explain the ASA training where OBS was taught and explained as to how to apply it when Jerry Fick gave the class in Cincinnati a couple of years ago.

I have noticed that if the runner is not trying, most of my partners will not call it.

I have called it a lot when they would not as I saw it as OBS and they didn't.

As you can see, you are doing the right thing by calling a violation when seen. Those giving you the static should be avoided like the plague as there is no benefit to you having to defend yourself to them.

BTW, this is not a territorial call. If you witness OBS (and I am referring to obvious OBS), you can make that call.


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