base umpire positioning
 

Best way I was ever taught and have used to teach others: from both B slot and C slot, line yourself up behind the baseline with the pitchers plate. It is almost exactly halfway so you can get to base behind for a throwback or base ahead for a steal or force play. If you use this as your home position when in these spots, it helps you not get beat and helps prevent you cheating one way or other

Do not allow the fielder to move you out of position. Within reason, if the fielder is playing deep you cannot play in front of her because that is the best position.

What if the defense put on a shift and with a runner on 1st they move the 2nd baseman between 2nd and 3rd. Would you go with her?

Of course not. The mechanic is about a fielder on the side we are on.

It is my understanding that the "2-3 steps off the shoulder" is where F6 would "normally" play.

If F6 is playing in, or shifted left or right, this would have no bearing on your position. You want to maintain a consistent position.

If F6 is playing deep, you may drop back a bit, but then maybe not. . .using the "straight line theory" (at least I think that is the right term).

Straight Line Theory: imagine a straight line between F6 and F4 (or any two adjacent players for that matter). If you are behind that line, you are considered to be behind both players, even though you may be closer to home plate than one of those players.

No, it is off the fielder, not a general position.

This should be used only if extremely deep, not just a step or two back. You will see that more in SP than in the FP game.

As an umpire, I want to be close to a fielder. Try to avoid a position in the hole, if possible. If you are, you become a target for the batter and that is something you do not want, especially in the SP game. This is more workable up the middle.

The reason you want to be close to a fielder is to avoid them when s/he reacts to a batted ball. Like a PU and a catcher, when the fielder moves back for a ball, you swing one way or the other depending on the direction of fielder and s/he is by you in the first step.

You're slipping, Mike! ;)

He IS slipping. I m concerned that his advanced age is catching up to him....:cool:

At least HE addressed the question! :rolleyes:
Maybe because he is instinctively an evaluator and teacher. :cool:

It's stupid to use terms like "off the shoulder." Use a distance between the bases as a guide and a distance behind the fielder.

Does every mechanic need an asterisk that reads, "Obviously, if a player is in your way, don't be an idiot; find another nearby reasonable place to set up?"

Not really, unless it is the type of umpire who needs an asterisk as noted below.

It's better to use constant references than it is variables. That's all.

Disagree. The entire game is based on variables and the umpire must adjust to the fielders, not the other way around. And for the reasons posted earlier, I would always keep the umpire near a fielder when possible.

As a batter, I loved it when the umpire would position him/herself in a hole. I would use that umpire as a target and try to put the ball right in his/her face and hope s/he would get out of the way as I knew that would be a base hit.

Mad skills, man.

Didn't say I was good at it :)

Are Irish's comments the consensus about my OP question; regarding teaching and evaluation?

The bases are constant. That makes it easier to give a description. Then people also don't take this so literally.

However, the location & actions of the runners & fielders and direction & progress of a batted ball are not and sometimes change by the play or by the second.

First scrimmage, first inning, both F4 and F6 being literal about "middle infielders".
Both within 10-15 from HP-2nd line and 10 - 15 feet back from base line.
From behind them, no way to reasonably cover a pick at 1st or a steal at 3rd.

Which would be the more important call, the one at 3rd or the one at 1st?

Considering your concerns, assuming runners @ 1B & 2B. I would most likely suggest a position to the right of F6 and call what you can see. That DOESN'T mean you call R2 out because you didn't see the runner touch the base before the tag, but only if you see a tag and the runner definitely not in contact with the base.

Obviously the one at 3rd, but I was only referring to a pick at 1st when in B.

Not sure why you used that example. I did call a runner safe on a pick at 1st from position C, too far away and straight-lined by the runner, as you imply, which was on Facebook as an out that night. I still think I called what I should from that position.

My point is the insistence of many on using the fielder as a guide and a shield does not always work and in my opinion is the wrong approach to begin with.

It is a preferred position as a matter of avoiding a possible INT call or being blocked. Like just about every other mechanic, it is not absolute. Most UIC/evaluators are not going to worry about an adjustment as long as it does not become the routine or is executed when unnecessary.

Using, at a starting point, that NFHS bases its mechanics on ASA mechanics, our (MTD, Jr., and me) local ASA UIC described how to set up in the B and C positions.

B Position (Runner on 1B): Draw a line that is parallel to the First Base Foul Line such that it is tangent to the Pitcher's Circle on the First Base side of the Circle. The BU should set up on this line such that he/she has as good view of F1's feet and the Runner on 1B. He calls this position the B1 Position.


C Position (Runner on 2B or Runners on 1B and 2B): Draw a line that is parallel to the Third Base Foul Line such that it is tangent to the Pitcher's Circle on the Second Base side of the Circle. The BU should set up on this line such that he/she has a good view of F1's feet and the Runner(s). He calls this position the C2 Position.


C Position (Runner on 3B, Runners on 2B and 3B, or Runners on 1B, 2B, and 3B): Draw a line that is parallel to the Third Base Foul Line such that it is tangent to the Pitcher's Circle on the Third Base side of the Circle. The BU should set up on this line such that he/she has a good view of F1's feet and the Runner(s). He calls this position the C3 Position.

Mark, Jr., and I use it for NFHS, NCAA, ASA, and even for USSSA fast pitch games.

Only once have a I had a partner have a problem with me being in the C3 position and it was in a JV game. The first time I was in the C3 he frantically pointed for me to go move toward 2B. After the half inning was over, he came out and told me that I had to get into correct position. I tried to explain to him why I was in the C3 and he just wouldn't buy it and for the rest of the game would give me a look of disgust whenever I was in the C3.

Mark, Jr., has never been questioned about it in any of his college games and naturally he used it in the two ASA Nationals he umpired last Summer.

MTD, Sr.

I'm curious enough to visualize these, as I probably have bases tomorrow.

I drew this up for you all since I was just talking about pre-pitch positioning earlier this week with a partner. Also, I work basically the same mechanics as described, although I've never called them B1/C2/C3. Depth here is dictated by the fielders, assuming they are not insanely deep. When the infield plays in, I will come as close as 2 steps from the 2B-3B baseline in C. The advantages are an instant 90 for a play at 2B, and the ability to get deep in the inside for a play on the BR at 1B. I give up some angle on force outs at 3B, but can easily drop step to regain depth and angle.

Depending on the game situation and likelihood of a pickoff at 3B, I deviate from MTD's suggestion with a runner on 3B only when there are two outs, and move back to C2. The most likely play in the infield is at 1B, and I feel like this gives me the extra step to get closer and more credible. I might also shade that way in a first-and-third situation when I believe it is likely the defense will try to defend the steal at 2B or the offense is likely to do something silly to try to score the run.

http://i.imgur.com/acWJCaA.jpg

Excellent visual, TeeBob.

Consider it stolen! ;)

I believe that that the starting positions that are detailed in the various umpire manuals that are based on the the positions of the fielders assume that the second baseman and shortstop are playing in a "normal" position. In my experience, this is becoming less and less common.

I have been advocating selecting a spot somewhere between half and two-thirds of the way to the next base as a starting position, then adjusting from there as necessary. For me, personally, I have found that this gives me plenty of time to react to a steal and get to a good position to rule on the play. I'm also able to take a couple of strides to get a decent angle on a pick off play, with the exception of the pick off at first from the C position in two umpire mechanics.

Great illustration. I was thinking more of how everything looks to me in those positions. As I said, today's game.

And I have been pushing half way between bases, 10-12 feet back from baseline; then adjust to be out of the way.

For years this was taught by the powers to be in ASA. I can remember being taught this at one of our state clinic where an ASA territory UIC was the clinician also. It is a very good teaching tool. I still use it today. But now they teach us to be off the left shoulder or right shoulder depending on which position you are in. But these are very good starting points.

I did some of this alternately with fielders' shoulders. Better when fielder off to side. Still prefer the "line" through the pitching plate, rather than tangent to the circle.
The C2 did allow a better view of the pitcher being outside the 24".

Tangent? I was told there would be no math....

Sorry but I am a retired structural engineer, :p.

MTD, Sr.

That's not math. That vocabulary. :rolleyes:

You guys are off on a tangent...

This is the way I was taught!!! Use your pitching plate as a point of reference in B and make slight adjustments.

Similarly, while in C, don't let the position of the SS take you closer to 2B than necessary. If needed, move to 3B side of SS. You don't want be caught chasing down an advancing runner into 3rd, you will end up getting straight-lined and guessing most of the time.