ASA Rules Changes??
 

This may be the first year where we didn't discuss proposed ASA Rules changes. Usually IrishMafia brought the agenda, and he and/or I reported the process. Since neither of us is still in the "team", I guess it slipped by.

Well, the National Council Meeting is over; what happened?? Andy, anyone else that was there?

I would hope they did something to correct the mess the free substitution rule created last year.

They already corrected that last summer. See the "Plays & Clarifications" page on their website.

Steve,

I was thinking the same thing yesterday. Boy, do I miss the good ol' days. :)

Yes, that clarifies what it became. But, my understanding was the original rule change was intended to be a bat the lineup and free substitution arrangement. That is not how it got worded in the change and then all the lineup reporting etc was required by the rest of the rule book.

I spoke with someone who was there; he didn't remember anything that shocking. I do know two rule changes, both in slow pitch:

-- In the E class, a home run will not end the at bat for the inning.

-- A courtesy runner (one per inning, can be anyone) will be allowed in classifications that did not previously have CR's.

There is also some realignment of local associations.

They continue to bring the game back to the sand lot. IMO, the wrong direction for championship play.

I was there.

Unfortunately, I had to leave before the vote on rule and code changes on Thursday afternoon. I have a list of what passed and what did not, however, I haven't really had a chance to study it yet.

There was a rule proposal to delete the requirement for batting helmet chin straps for JO play, which I believe passed. There was also a proposal to align the ASA hit by pitch rule with all other orgs and eliminate the requirement to make an attempt to avoid a pitch that is within the batter's box. This proposal passed every committee, and was then defeated on the floor...I'm still trying to find out what happened there.

There was also much discussion about a proposed realignment from 15 regions down to eight regions, with a map and everything. There was no legislative proposal to be voted on, just distribution of the map and much discussion in committees.

I will get an update on the rule changes together and post it

Thank you, Andy. :cool:

Just for nostalgia:
https://forum.officiating.com/softba...committee.html

It will be interesting to see who and how this plays out. There is one pretty high profile situation openly played out on Facebook and openly stating that a commissioner of an association with rising registration numbers (while most others are declining) was "fired" for not being sufficiently supportive of the current President and Executive Director versus the needs of his association.

That one scenario (if not others that I'm not aware of) was made public enough by the Facebook postings that ASA felt the need to make a PR statement and news release (Information on ASA USA Softball) to counter public opinion.

Most large organizations tolerate contrarian views, it helps them get a read on what other options could be considered, if nothing else; some even welcome those thoughts. Previously (and probably to their detriment, as much of the old guard appears to have little knowledge or concern of what their membership wants), the Board of Directors never supported replacing Commissioners without substantial cause (missing funds, charged with a crime); probably because it made their own positions more secure. So, although some (including at least two on this board) with much lesser positions serving at the whim/will of a Commissioner have been shown the door, this is a relatively new process (at least in that one situation).

It has always been very difficult to get ASA to consider any new ideas. I'm afraid this, if accurate, will silence more and others with fresh and contrarian views. Rebranding won't fix that, or the perception.

IMO, this is something that started a couple years ago.

When it was suggested that this was the track on which ASA was heading, I didn't buy it right away. At least, not until some of us felt like we were run over by a train.

Again, JMHO, I am less than impressed with the present regime and the path they are taking what was one THE softball organization in this country down.

I would like to know if there was any discussion of changing the logo on the shirts and hats for 2016 or is the scuttle butt concerning that going to come down the pike in 2017 or 2018?

The absolute earliest the umpire uniform logos could be changed is 2017.

After that, there will be a phase in period for the new uniform logo just as there was with the recent logo change. Most likely 3-4 years before the new logo is required in National Championship Tournaments.

I just bought shirts and hats with the new logo. So of course there's talk of updating it yet again.

In all honesty, I'm pretty sure not a single playing participant in the game cares what font and typeface we wear on our hats/shirts/ball bags.

All I know is that the scuttle butt that Junior and I have heard is that the new logos will not be ASA but will be USA and they might be here as early as 2017.



I do know that UICs at Nationals do care. There was at least one umpire at each of the two Nationals that Junior in which Junior umpired that did had shirts and hats with the old logos, but the tournaments needed bodies so nobody was sent home.

MTD, Sr.

Rule 3-3F2 11” slow pitch starting 2017 use 52/300 ball
Rule 3-5E Delete requirement to wear chin straps in JO play
Rule 3-6 Add Coed C/D and Women’s C/D to list that only have to wear matching shirts with numbers
Rule 5-8A Delete inning ending out for a home run in E/Rec. Now it is just an out.
Rule 7-1A All JO fast pitch can now use either on deck circle.
Rule 8-9B2 All adult slow pitch except seniors can have a courtesy runner. Any eligible player on the official line-up, including available substitutes may be used as a courtesy runner. One CR only may be used per inning. Seniors will continue to use their CR rule.


Also the branding discussion. As mentioned at the earliest the new umpire uniforms will be available is 2017. That was mentioned with the understanding that the BOD has to approve the new logo by early 2016 in order for the manufactures to have time to fill the pipeline with new logo items for the 2017 season. As they did with the current new ASA logo (yes it is weird to have a discussion about two "new" logos at the same time) it will be phased in over a number of years. As mentioned 2017 is the earliest umpires can purchase the USA logo, it won't be mandatory until most likely 2020 to coincide with the hopeful return of Softball to the Olympics.

I don't know why women's slow pitch continues to have to use the 11" ball.

They grew up from 12U thru HS and college using the 12" ball and now they need to use a smaller ball?? Crazy.

It would certainly help speed up co-ed games if both genders would hit the 12" ball.

Regarding the CRs for slow pitch, who picks who the runner will be?

Most league bylaws simply have whoever made the last out serve as the CR.

If the CR is on base and is due to bat, can someone else be the CR? Or would the original runner have to go back in? Can't have a CR for a CR, right?

If the defense gets to pick, they'd obviously opt for the slowest runner. But what if the guy/gal they pick would require a CR themselves?

If the offense gets to pick, they're always going to put in their rabbit. Seems like a roster opportunity to get someone on the team whose job will be to run for someone every half-inning.

Is there some sanctioning body somewhere that lets the defense pick the courtesy runners? :confused:

This is a stupid rule change passed by people who do not umpire.

MTD, Sr.

MN has used a rule for several years in both JO and HS that requires the on-deck batter to use the on-deck circle behind the batter. The rationale is safety. I suppose there is some decrease in the chances of getting hit by a foul ball with this... but it is not a big deal at all for umpires.

I don't understand the rationale for the new ASA change, though.

There is not logical rationale for this rule change.

Baseball and softball at all levels (high school, college, and professional) has always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirely, it is a basketball thing) has stated that a team's on-deck circle is on its dugout side of the field. And while there is no requirement that an on-deck batter use the on-deck circle, if the on-deck batter chooses to use it the on-deck batter must use his or her team's on-deck circle.

The reasoning for an on-deck batter to use his or her teams' on-deck circle is three-fold: i) The on-deck batter is under close supervision of his or her teams's coaches; ii) The on-deck batter is away from the opposing team's dugout thus reducing the chances of taunting by either side; and iii) The PU knows exactly where the on-deck batter is at all times.

The "safety" excuse is a non-starter. An on-deck batter can be hit by a foul ball no matter which on-deck circle is used. Coaches need to teach their players to pay attention to the game and what is happening on the diamond at all times.

I am climbing down off my soapbox now because it is basketball season, :D.

MTD, Sr.

In today's game, there's a 4th reason to stay on the offensive side. With most coaches calling pitches from the mouth of the dugout, this will allow on-deck hitters to "inadvertently" get in the way. Get prepared to deal with that issue; and one more reason why the coach thinks he needs to have a bucket seat on the field.

I also call bullsh!t on the "safety" of intentionally putting on-deck batters "behind" the batter. So, all batters swing late, and that (late) batter fouling a pitch is more dangerous than the dead pull hitter ripping "her" pitch? That may make sense on the bigger and deeper baseball field where the on-deck batter is actually behind the batter, but it is stupid logic on a softball field.

So, two rules that ASA umpires have enforced forever (chin straps to keep the helmet on the head and stay on your side) are now removed, making a mockery of any prior rationale and required enforcement. One of my pet peeves in high school games has been poorly fitted helmets that are worn to NOT stay on the head, so now we get that in ASA, too. Nicely done.

Steve, not signaling you on this one, you just happen to be the last one that responded. Zaright-ok.

As for the on deck circles, this board is making much ado about nothing. It will be interesting how many batter will CHOOSE to use the other one. Well, maybe if they know they can steal signals :rolleyes:.

I'm ok with the CHOICE if the batter feels safer. This has been an accepted practice and recently codified in the men's game. At the highest level, where tempers can run at the highest, there is zero problem. I'll concede that there is a measure of self-policing in that game, but I've never remotely had to deal with any issues.

Chinstraps were a good move, or at least as written. Players were not wearing them properly (snug to the chin vs. "dangling"). The helmets these days are properly fitting. Of course, I'm talking about your tournament teams, not your rec teams (and the rec leagues can still require chin straps). Is there a problem in codes (i.e. NFHS) that do not require chin straps?

There are already rules in ASA about this: Master's over 40 (and seniors, with one exception). It is rule 8-9 B and C. Therefore:

Offense

See my opinion below

No and no. CR comes off base, declared out, and takes his place at bat (8-9-C 2 Effect).

And to play defense every half inning as well.

IMO, the "last out CR" rule (or variation) is stupid and inane. One location uses "last batted out" which is even more stupid. Other than ASA's "no participation" rule, the best rule is ISF softball, where the person furthest to bat will be the CR (for the catcher with two outs).

I'm not familiar with many men's fastpitch teams where a coach in the dugout calls the pitches rather than the catcher. So, the differences I see are that the men's on-deck batter really can't get in the way, and that they know how to self-police without the overreaction in the JO game.

As to the helmet and chinstrap, in my metro area there are a number of high schools that are inner-city or demographically similar in adjacent counties; and they field a softball team because the city or county insists they will. In some cases, I have been told by a coach that the only way they are fielding a team TODAY is that he/she stopped at the detention hall and negotiated a student to serve detention by playing that day so they would have 9 or 10!! Some of these "players" don't know how to put on a glove, let alone catch or hit a ball; and if you think they have a helmet that fits on that "do", well, guess again.

When these teams play each other, it is like 10U in-park rec with advances on each pitch on passed balls, and each player advances one base, overruns, comes back, stops, and then goes and retrieves the helmet; after each pitch. No chinstrap, the helmet comes off. Yeah, I know, we could try to enforce "legally and properly equipped", but in these cases, that's peeing upstream. They don't even have chinstraps to share; because NFHS doesn't require it.

So, I'm seeing that future in the rec leagues with the girls there for social reasons; and I doubt the leagues will require a chinstrap now that ASA doesn't (they already complain that "No One Else Makes Us").

That may not be an issue with you; I doubt you call much at that level at this point in your career. But I still do; as the leader/coordinator/assignor for these leagues, I have to appear from time-to-time, both as a sales call, and as the "I have to do this, too" example within my group.

First, I am ambivalent about the MN rule. I think any logical person would see that the ODB is less likely to get hit when behind the batter, but also any logical person would see that the ODB can still get hit anyway, so it does not remove the need to pay attention. I think even the MN powers that be that decided to use this rule even in high school would admit such. But, they are of the mind set that reducing the probability of an injury is a good thing. I have pointed out many times that if a coach (or a player) does not feel the OD circle is in a safe place, they are not required to put the ODB out there.

Much too much is made of the interfering with signals and/or taunting/jawing and the like. MN has been using this rule for a number of years now and blocking signals has happened in my games exactly once, and was easily dealt with. Taunting has happened never.

But, my main point was this is not a big deal for umpires.

Just thinking out loud...

Say we have the offensive team in the first base side dugout and a right-handed batter at bat. The OD batter wants to use the opposite OD circle. Do we call time to allow her to run over to the other side of the field?

What if you have a switch hitter who switches in the middle of an at-bat? Do we need to call time to let the OD batter switch sides, too?

Anectdotal tale...the worst OD batter injury I ever saw happened when the OD batter was on the batter's "back" side. So much for it being safer...

This is only how I handle it... I hold the pitcher, but not formally say "TIME".

See above... same.

"Safe" is different from "safer."

As I said above, I am ambivalent regarding the rule. It may, in fact, convey a false sense of safety.

But, in the flow of the game, in the management of the game, in the umpiring of the game, it is not a big deal.

This rule change is a rule change that can be laid our our feet for not enforcing the old rule because we did not want to be seen as being an OOO!

Mark, Jr., and I umpire ASA tournaments every summer with ASA umpires from at least three different OhioASA Districts. The District Commissioner and District UIC of only one district expected its umpires and defended its umpires in enforcing the old rule.

MTD, Sr.

I know that here in the central district we've always been told to enforce it.

I think some will be shocked at how many of the helmets will now accidently pop off during play :)

Regarding the chin strap rule...how did you "enforce" it?

The only requirement in the rules was that the helmet have a chin strap. There was never any further clarifications issued as to how that chin strap had to be worn, only that it be there.

I recall sitting in a meeting at ASA Council one year and KR was asked point blank about it and issuing some type of official statement as to how the chin strap was to be worn.

He flatly stated that he would not do so, because no matter what wording was used, it could not be consistently enforced due to judgement of what wearing the chin strap "properly" would mean.

My enforcement included:
Must exist on helmet,
Must be securely attached on both sides, and
Must be worn at chin or below, not across the mask nor above the helmet brim.

I did not attempt to debate how snugly nor proximity to the chin, but did state affirmatively that the manufacturers never submitted the item to be approved across the mask nor above the brim. Never heard a coherent response to that.

Similarly, I require adult players wearing a cap to wear it brim forward. My standard explanation is to state that headwear is not a fashion statement, and that if anyone can produce a patent or manufacturer's guide describing the brim as designed to shade the back of the neck, that I would then change my position. I also challenge anyone to show me a picture of (Griffey) Junior, whom I consider the primary proponent, wearing it in that fashion WHILE PLAYING.

But that's just me.

Our ASA UIC told us that the chin strap should be not looser that two fingers beneath the chin.

MTD, Sr.

No, it wasn't just you. I agree with you positions and is the same as I noted as a UIC.

The chin strap, like every other piece of equipment and uniform, is to be worn properly which is under the chin and it wasn't at all difficult to enforce

Here is the link to the ASA Website with the "official" documents...

ASA Code, Playing Rule Changes

IMO, and that is all it is, the organization is moving the SP game in a direction that seems backwards, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised as that was predicted back when they added the E/Rec class.