End of Half w/ fouls

[tjones1]

2nd Quarter, 10 seconds remaining.
A's ball, 2nd & 10. A throws a pass that is intercepted by B84.

While B34 is running, A81 and B31 are flagged for personal fouls at the 50 (A81 committed the first foul).

Time expires as B84 runs to A's 5 yard line where he fumbles it into the end zone. A30 covers the fumble for a touchback.

What are the options?

-------

If B accepts, then A accepts: Untimed down; replay 2nd down, A's ball.

If B accepts, then A declines: Untimed down; B's ball 1st & 10 from A's 35 yard line.

If B declines, then A accepts: Untimed down; B's ball 1st & 10 from B's 35 yard line.

If B declines, then B declines: Play stands. End of half.

-------

Right, wrong, not even close?

[whitehat]

message deleted

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Assuming the PFs were both live ball fouls after the change of possession it would not matter if A or B fouled first.

Yes, both PFs occurred after the change of possession (i.e. Team B intercepted the ball with "clean hands").

Why doesn't it matter who fouled first? Since Team A committed the first PF, isn't Team B going to get the option to accept or decline first?

Thanks.

[MD Longhorn]

Assuming B declines (as it must, or A gets the ball back), then all you have is an interception by B, a foul by B during the return. A foul on the team with the ball doesn't result in an untimed down. Halftime, whether A accepts or declines.

[Cliffdweller]

No. Only dead ball fouls are enforced the way they were committed. Live ball fouls offset.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Assuming B declines (as it must, or A gets the ball back), then all you have is an interception by B, a foul by B during the return. A foul on the team with the ball doesn't result in an untimed down. Halftime, whether A accepts or declines.

If B declines, which it must to keep the ball, A has 2 options; decline and take the touchback or accept and give B an untimed down from the B35.

If B accepts, then A will accept and we have a double foul and the down is re-played with and untimed down.

ART. 3 . . . A period shall be extended by an untimed down if one of the following occurred during a down in which time expires:

a. There was a foul by either team and the penalty is accepted, except for those fouls listed in 3-3-4b.

b. There was a double foul.

c. There was an inadvertent whistle.

d. If a touchdown was scored, the try is attempted unless the touchdown is scored during the last down of the fourth period and the point(s) would not affect the outcome of the game or playoff qualifying.

[westneat]

There are no options. These live ball fouls must offset and we will have an untimed down, since team A was the team last in possession and they fouled before gaining possession.

[whitehat]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Yes, both PFs occurred after the change of possession (i.e. Team B intercepted the ball with "clean hands").

Why doesn't it matter who fouled first? Since Team A committed the first PF, isn't Team B going to get the option to accept or decline first?

Thanks.

It doesn't matter who fouled first because both are live ball fouls. If they were dead ball fouls then you would enforce both of them in the order they occured from the succeeding spot.

In the case of two live ball fouls on the same play they do not necessarily offset. Example would be a hold by the offense during or before pass, B intercepts, commits a BIB on the run back and is downed. Two live ball fouls here, but if B declines A's hold, B keeps the ball after having BIB enforced. The timing of the live ball fouls here is only significant because there is a change of possesion, not because both happened on the same play.

Extending this play where the clock runs out during the play: Lets say the clock runs out during Bs interception return. B would decline A's hold to keep the ball. But then A would decline B's BIB to end the half. If B accepts A's penalty (which they would not do), then A would accept B's and they would then offset resulting in a replay of the down.

[westneat]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Extending this play where the clock runs out during the play: Lets say the clock runs out during Bs interception return. B would decline A's hold to keep the ball. But then A would decline B's BIB to end the half. If B accepts A's penalty (which they would not do), then A would accept B's and they would then offset resulting in a replay of the down.

Neither team has an option in this play. The fouls are offset by rule since the team last in possession fouled before gaining possession.

[whitehat]

Originally Posted by westneat

Neither team has an option in this play. The fouls are offset by rule since the team last in possession fouled before gaining possession.

Actually, in this scenario B fouls after gaining final possesion so they would have the choice of declining A's penatly and retaining the ball.

On the OP, (after further review ) I agree that in that case, since A was last in possesion and fouled prior to gaining final possession then there are no choices, the penalties offset.

[MTUMP]

The key element here is that Team B is NOT in final possession here, but Team A is (via the touchback). Thus 10-2-2 is not in effect (clean hands) due to Team A fouling before the final change of possession. Thus enforce 10-2-1b. Replay the down....untimed, of course.
RULE 10-2
ART. 1 . . . It is a double foul if both teams commit fouls, other than unsportsmanlike or nonplayer, during the same live-ball period in which:

a. There is no change of team possession, unless all fouls committed by R are post-scrimmage kick fouls, or

b. There is a change of team possession, and the team in possession at the end of the down fouls prior to final change of possession unless all fouls committed by R are post-scrimmage kick fouls, or

[MD Longhorn]

Actually, that's right. I glossed over the fact that A recovered. These fouls offset by rule.

[dieter]

Does the answer change if the fumble goes out the back of the endzone? In this case A never possesses the ball but would be the next to snap due to the touchback.

(Long time lurker, thanks for all the great info)