Luke Kuechly Ejected
 

Luke Kuechly ejected for personal foul penalty - NFL.com

The above "story" has a video of the incident.

To me as a non-official, this looks absolutely terrible on the part of the officiating crew. Not only did they not flag the Packers player for ripping him off the pile, they ejected him for merely breaking the hold of someone who grabbed him from behind.

Am I wrong here?

NFL pretty much has a zero tolerance policy regarding contacting an official.

Has there ever been a good zero tolerance policy?

What Kuechly did shouldn't have even been penalized much less resulted in an ejection. Let's see if the NFL head the common sense not to fine him.

Same thing happened with the Colts Erik Walden today. Official had a hold of Jermaine Gresham and Walden and Walden swiped his arm away.

I'm not sure I would say they're the same. In Kuechly's case, he was being grabbed from behind. All he did was kind of a "get off me" motion. If he'd actually initiated contact with the official (or known it was an official at all), I could see the penalty and ejection. With the way it happened, I have no idea how even a penalty was considered, much less an ejection.

I am sure he was talking to him too. I have no problem with the ejection. When the play is over, stop!!!!!

Peace

Considering the way he way ripped off the pile by a Packers player, I can't really fault him for trying to free himself from someone grabbing him from behind.

I'm not sure what you mean by "when the play is over, stop" when he appears to be walking away from the pile and only reacts to the contact initiated by the official.

Here is what I mean. Players all the time do not stop when the play is clearly over and in these piles. And I am sure the official was talking to him as well and it probably was a little more than him grabbing the player. He probably tried to get him to get away. And often these players keep going when they clearly are not any longer in the play or with the ball. High school players know how to stop. College players know how to stop. Get off the pile and get away. Now if the NFL has a problem they will say so. But until then, he could have stopped and got away and I am sure the officials was talking to him. I have no sympathy what so ever for this player.

Peace

So because in a lot of cases players behave a certain way, even though this player didn't, you think what happened is acceptable?

I dunno about you JRut but when I'm grabbed from behind I don't react well. You can't expect players to "just stop" when they are frustrated. Football is full of this type of reaction -- if the ref wades in there and gets involved he better expect that this might happen.

I dunno about you, but I work football all the time and we grab or touch players so they get off the pile. And we are usually yelling at them to get off the pile or the play is over. Now we do not grab them at my levels like they do at the NFL level, but if a player gets up in the wrong way, they could be subject to the same action, whether it is me the officials or an opponent. Once again, I have no sympathy.

Peace

Players get grabbed all the time by officials in the NFL. Officials all pro levels have an extra ability to break up fights and actions. I have seen that many times before and players stop. He didn't, so you get what you deserve. Sorry, I have no problem with the official and we do not know what he said to him or if it was only about contact. It might have been because he was a tool and his reaction made the official pull the trigger. Again, the NFL will comment if they see it as wrong and I am sure everything that took place was in the report to the league.

Peace

What reaction? He got ripped off the pile and was clearly walking away from the situation. Nothing would have happened if the official hadn't initiated contact with him. Minimal, non-malicious contact in direct response to the official grabbing a player from behind doesn't even warrant a flag, much less an ejection. Very poorly handled.

You should try to be more objective in posts, since you come off as someone who blindly defends officials in the majority of posts I've seen from you. You're defending the official using things that simply didn't happen.

Neither you or I know what was said or what he was ultimately being pulled away for. Now if you think it does not warrant a flag, then when you work your NFL games you will not throw one. That is why we are all different and why they hire some people and others are sitting at home and it has a lot to do with their judgment.

I also really do not care what you think of my opinions of officials. I have seen this kind of action for years and I almost never see a player act the way this player did. If you do not like it, that is your problem. I stand by my position on this and other things I have said. And for the record, this is not HS or college football we are talking about. The standards at the pro level is very different in all sports. You are dealing with adults, not kids or student athletes. You do not like my comments, do not read my posts. You sound like a fanboy that would complain about what the umpire did in Pat-Jets game on Thursday.

Peace

lol. Now you're dismissing me as a fanboy? I'm the one being objective here. I can't speak to the Pats-Jets game as I didn't watch it. If I thought this was handled properly by the officials, I would say so. I said out loud tonight that the two officials made a great call on the catch that Harbaugh challenged halfway through the second quarter.

I'm more of a baseball guy and am a bigger participant in baseball discussions, usually in defense of umpires against people who don't know/understand the rules. Part of being objective is being able to acknowledge when an official makes an error as well as being able to compliment a particularly good call or bit of situation handling.

In my opinion, the decision to flag and eject Kuechly here was outrageous. He had a natural reaction to being grabbed from behind, and it's debatable whether the official needed to intervene at all. My understanding of the other ejection today was that he swatted at an official's hand who was trying to guide him away from a situation. The way I've read, it seems like that would be a justifiable ejection. But I can't accurately compare the two without having seen both incidents.

You are sounding like one. Did you know what was said? Did you know if there was more to the penalty than what you saw on the video? I cannot answer that myself and I am not saying what should or should not have happened in this case other than what was seen on the video. I am sure the official had the entire picture and made a judgment.

What is your point? I have to agree with you to be considered objective? And you say that you are a baseball guy, but you must not have read many of my comments about baseball umpires on the baseball side. I have often criticized umpires in MLB for making bad mistakes on routine situations. But no one fires them so they keep making those mistakes without the same level of consequences that most pro guys have to face. And in my opinion on this situation, the official was doing his job and the player did not let it go. Shame on him and he got ejected. Trust me, life will go on.

And it is great that you have an opinion. It is my opinion the player should have acted better and walked away from the situation. And if players act like that all the time, why don't they act that way when their teammates grab them? Something tells me he knew exactly who was grabbing him and thought his actions were going to be ignored. Well he ran into the wrong guy now didn't he. Life is full of lessons and this is one for that player. ;)

Peace

Since we don't know what was being said at the time, I'll grant the player the least favorable assumption, i.e. that he said something insulting to the person behind him who was grabbing him. It is inconceivable in that crowd that the player would have known that that person was an official. So under the worst conditions, it's an ordinary unsportsmanlike conduct, which unless it was a repetition of previously penalized or warned-against behavior that game should not have incurred a DQ. The letter of NFL's rule against intentionally contacting officials was not met either, because the official contacted the player rather than vice versa.

This is the same video I saw while at the game yesterday and this was going down right in front of me...I was about 26 rows up.

What you should see on this video is:

1 - #21 of the Panthers pulling a Packer who happens to be holding Kuechly. The Packers player didn't rip him away from the pile, another Panther did indirectly. Just so we're both clear on what took place.

2 - Kuechly throws a punch at the Packer player when kicking his feet trying to get up as being dragged back....that swing was flagged by R Jeff Triplette, but you don't see it in the first video angle. The second Unsportsmanlike that got him ejected was the swing at the BJ.

3 - As an official, you know full well the Back Judge was telling him to cool it and probably let the one arm swing and shove go without issue until he swung an arm and clocked him on the side of the head and at that point he had enough.

I guess I don't know how many swings you want to let this guy throw before you've seen enough.

And on a side note, the habit of opponents dragging and pulling each other off of these piles needs to be addressed. It's trickling down and happening at the lower levels and creates the inevitable shoving match every time.

Agree wholeheartedly, on both counts. A player striking an official (anywhere, anyhow) is equivelant to someone striking their MOTHER, and is NEVER excused (anywhere, anyhow).

Pulling opponents off the pile is NONSENSE. First time (at least) is a stern talking to, if it repeats, or is bad enough the first time, 15 yards. It is a trickle down from the professional game and shouldn't be tolerated.

And if you don't react well when an official tells you to get off the pile and grabs you... you see the result.

Where's all this talk about striking an official coming from? He rotated his arm in an attempt to get whoever was grabbing him to release him. From both angles shown it's clear he wasn't even close to contacting the official's head, much less "clocking" him.

I see one angle. He did not have to necessarily hit him in the head. He still might have hit him.

Peace

I see what you're saying, but for whatever reason, the Packers player's grip on Kuechly made it seem a lot more violent than the way the Panthers player pulled him away from the pile. Someone could easily get hurt being ripped off a pile that way. I don't think it's horribly out of line for him to try to defend himself (not sure I would call that throwing a punch). After he went down, he got up and was walking away. He didn't take a swing at anyone.

There's two angles shown in the video if you watch it all the way through.

His hand may have come to rest on the officials shoulder. That's not "striking" the official considering the circumstances. I was responding directly to Sturno's claim that Kuechly "clocked" the official in the side of the head.

I did see the videos and I do think the officials has hit. Now was he hit very hard? No, but you do not have to be hit and whether he hit him or not might not have been the actual issues. Once again, the officials I am sure was talking to him and there were words as well as actions that played a role.

Peace

He took a swing at 89 of the Packers when he was getting dragged backwards, and he just missed landing it and that was what got Triplette to throw his flag first. Look for more video of it. He was staring at 15 yards before he ever got on his feet...

Let's play this game. You find yourself with some buddies in a skirmish in the parking lot of a local sports bar. Cops arrive and you happen to elbow a cop mistaking him for one of "the other guys". Guess who's going downtown.

How about we look at Kuechly not throwing elbows and acting like an adult instead of defending a guy that met every condition/actions for ejection? Take your Carolina blue glasses off and see this from an outside perspective. Accusing the official of wrongdoing by trying to separate him and get him away from the action isn't appropriate either. Can you imagine how these games would get out of control if they don't get in there? Kuechly acted like a spoiled 6 year old and paid the price.

Lesson #1: know who you're swinging at before you take a swing.
Lesson #2: keep your freaking head about you. There's no reason we can't expect these guys to act like adults instead of 9 year olds who don't get their way.

Cris Carter got ejected from a game when he was mad about a call on the sideline, he spiked the ball and hit the official. It was clear CC did not purposely hit the official with the ball, but he still hit him. He was ejected from that game and fined as well if my memory works properly. Because if Kuechly hat hit a player in the helmet, I would say the very same thing.

Peace

I'm by no means a Carolina fan. I don't consider him trying to shake the grip of someone grabbing him to be throwing an elbow.

Since the game of football began, at every level, something that is KNOWN by EVERY player; hitting an official is like hitting your MOTHER, and doing so causes consequences. There are no excuses, no allowances, it is something that is NEVER, EVER allowed.

On a second note, there is no valid reason to unpile opponents off a pile. If there is a problem with players on the pile, game officials will handle it. When a player CHOOSES to pull opponents ANYWHERE after the play is over, he accepts whatever consequences result. That too is nothing new, and something EVERY player, at every level, should understand.

If a player wants to protect a fellow player, he should buy him a big dog (but the dog won't be allowed on the field either)

Again, I don't think he hit him.

Also, Kuechly wasn't doing any of that. He got ripped off the pile, got up and was walking away from the situation.

I think the overall point you are missing here is it really does not matter if he hit him or not. He was acting like a jackazz and he got caught and did it to the wrong person.

An officiating mentor used to say to me, "You can roll the dice all you want, you just might crap out." He rolled the dice and he was around the wrong person. If that person had been you, he might have been lucky. If it was me, you might have been ejected. Not all officials feel the same about plays and situation and that is never going to change.

Peace

He wasn't acting like a jackass. He was trying to walk away from the situation when he was grabbed from behind from a spot where a couple Packers were also standing. All he did was wrench his arm free. If he'd done anything more than that, I'd agree with you. It's not like he took a blind swing at anyone.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that he didn't do anything other than have a natural reaction to having his arm grabbed from behind. He freed himself and kept on walking away. It was a natural response to contact initiated by the official, completely non-malicious. To eject someone for a reaction like that is ridiculous.

Well that is your opinion and you have a right to hold that opinion. And considering what people think is appropriate is subjective. And when you have an official at that level grabbing you and trying to pull you away from the situation and you still cannot stop, then I have no sympathy for your situation. If he had swung at a player and missed, he would have been ejected as well. So if that is ridiculous to you, because that standard certainly applies at the NCAA and NF(HS) levels. I am sure the NFL has been given guidelines for their players and tell their officials what they are to do in these situations. You can complain all you like, but that is the way it is and unless I hear something else, something tells me this ejection is going to stand or be supported.

Peace

Stokley DQ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPX7qleLtzc

I'm ready to see the "Locked" icon on this thread.....

He was walking away from the situation, and he continued to walk away after freeing himself from the person grabbing him. At least comment on the situation as it happened.

Good ejection. Not at all related to what happened here.

So walking away means you can throw an elbow? And once again, if he had hit a player in the face, I guess your answer is that, "He was walking away, so that makes it OK" too?

Peace

I don't view it as throwing an elbow. I view it as him wrenching his arm free.

And it appears the officials on the game and the other people here do. Again, you have a right to your judgment. And when this kind of situation happens to you, you can give them a pass. If that happens to me, he will be hitting the showers. Especially in this day and age with video and everything else under scrutiny.

Peace

For comparison's sake, I think this should have resulted in an ejection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpcgP4sVUKo

Clearly intentional contact.


The Kuechly incident was just that, incidental contact (initiated by the official) with no malicious intent.

EDIT: Just to clarify, if the official had been next to or in front of Kuechly, I'd view this differently. The reason I oppose the flag and ejection is that he grabbed him from behind and Kuechly had every reason to want to free his arm and continue walking away. If he'd known it was an official, I'd say he shouldn't have let the official keep guiding him.

Again, players come in contact with officials all the time. It is different when you are reacting in anger like this Kuechly did. Jackson and the officials crossed paths and IMO was not contacting the official in anger. He might have done it on purpose, but the official was not watching him or having any conversation with him. And since there is no definition in football for incidental contact, you have the right once again to feel it is not a problem, but a player doing thing in anger does not absolve his action or reaction by those around him. He should have walked away and we are not having this discussion. Sorry, but often it is the reaction that gets caught.

Peace

The point you're missing is that he was walking away the whole time.

I did not notice that a Panther player was pulling the Packer player ... thanks for pointing it out

Triplette did not throw is flag, he is tossing the football in to the U or C. You can clearly see that Triplette still has his flag in his pants (0:47 of video)

If there was contact, it was very minor at best. I do not know the exact wording of the rule/policy and I will defer judgment to the NFL Office

Agree 100%

I looked again & again, and I still don't see any add'l cx by the player on the official; it was all the official on the player. Had the official been taller, he might've gotten an elbow in the head, but I can't see swinging my arm free from a pull like that from behind as either a personal foul or USC. BTW, if the player hadn't swung around, the official was about to trip him!

Walking away does not absolve you from bad behavior no more than not cursing allows you to act a fool in other ways. You keep being stuck on what direction he was going in rather than knowing when to stop acting like a fool when the play is clearly over.

Peace

Look at this link. Luke Kuechly ejection unjustified, NFL says - ESPN (sorry don't know how to make it a hot link). Apparently the NFL does not agree with the BJ in this case. Now can we let this rest.

Wow. Still missing the point. He wasn't "acting like a fool" at any point. He got ripped off the pile by his neck and was walking away from the play.

This thread is an ever rolling wheel, without a destination real.

Say goodnight, Gracie.