spot of enforcement and penalty

[otis3zeb]

TEAM A HAS THE BALL ON THEIR 45, A32 FUMBLES ON THE 50, DURING THE SCRAMBLE FOR THE LOOSE BALL B66 GRABS A56 FACEMASK AND PULLS HIM TO THE GROUND, A32 RECOVERS THE BALL AT THE OPP. 45, AND IS RUNNING TOWARDS HIS GOAL LINE, WHEN B10 HITS HIM CAUSING THE BALL TO COME OUT AT THE 10, BALL IS KICKED AROUND, WHEN B12 BATTS IT TOWARDS HIS OWN END ZONE AND IT GOES OUT THE BACK. WHAT DO WE HAVE?? ALSO BACK JUDGE COME UP TO YOU AFTER THE WHISTLE BLOWS AND SAYS HE HAD A LATE FLAG FOR TAUNTING BY B12. GIVE IT TO ME GUYS, i KNOW ITS FAR FETCHED BUT ALOT COVERED AND ALWAYS CAN HAPPEN, ALSO I HAVE 2 TEAMS NOT THAT GOOD THIS FRIDAY, SOMETHING LIKE THIS WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN....!!!! THANKS FOR YOUR TIME...

[JRutledge]

Let us take this one at a time.

First we have a facemask before B gets the ball. So B did not get the ball with clean hands to start with. That is going to be treated as a live ball foul, the only one we have at this point.

Second, we have dead ball foul with the taunting.

Third, we have a penalty that happen during a loose ball, so the enforcement if accepted will go back to the previous spot.

So if we have an accepted penalty, we go back to the previous spot and access a 15 yard penalty (which it seems from your discription) and we repeat the same down. But because we have a dead ball foul, we must take back 15 yards of that penalty for that foul basically the ball would be in the same place. We do not seem to have "half the distance" issues.

I hope I got that right, but it is hard to read your post with all the caps.

Peace

[James Neil]

Originally posted by otis3zeb
TEAM A HAS THE BALL ON THEIR 45, A32 FUMBLES ON THE 50, DURING THE SCRAMBLE FOR THE LOOSE BALL B66 GRABS A56 FACEMASK AND PULLS HIM TO THE GROUND, A32 RECOVERS THE BALL AT THE OPP. 45, AND IS RUNNING TOWARDS HIS GOAL LINE, WHEN B10 HITS HIM CAUSING THE BALL TO COME OUT AT THE 10, BALL IS KICKED AROUND, WHEN B12 BATTS IT TOWARDS HIS OWN END ZONE AND IT GOES OUT THE BACK. WHAT DO WE HAVE?? ALSO BACK JUDGE COME UP TO YOU AFTER THE WHISTLE BLOWS AND SAYS HE HAD A LATE FLAG FOR TAUNTING BY B12. GIVE IT TO ME GUYS, i KNOW ITS FAR FETCHED BUT ALOT COVERED AND ALWAYS CAN HAPPEN, ALSO I HAVE 2 TEAMS NOT THAT GOOD THIS FRIDAY, SOMETHING LIKE THIS WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN....!!!! THANKS FOR YOUR TIME...

What we have here are multiple live ball fouls and one dead ball foul on Team B. and contrary to what has been suggested, none of these fouls occurred during a loose ball play. The ball may have been loose but the 15-yard facemask foul occurred during a running play and the basic spot for this foul will be the end of that related run. We also have a foul on B12 for illegal batting during a running play and I believe this foul would also be enforced from the end of it's related run. So A has the option to have either foul enforced and will most likely take the illegal batting which brings the ball 1/2 the distance to the goal line putting it at the B-5. Then 1/2 the distance again for the taunting by B12 (although I cant imagine what heÂ’s got to taunt about) making it A 1/goal @ B-2.5 ...clock on the snap

[Edited by James Neil on Aug 20th, 2003 at 06:58 AM]

[James Neil]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Let us take this one at a time.

First we have a facemask before B gets the ball. So B did not get the ball with clean hands to start with. That is going to be treated as a live ball foul, the only one we have at this point.

Second, we have dead ball foul with the taunting.

Third, we have a penalty that happen during a loose ball, so the enforcement if accepted will go back to the previous spot.

So if we have an accepted penalty, we go back to the previous spot and access a 15 yard penalty (which it seems from your discription) and we repeat the same down. But because we have a dead ball foul, we must take back 15 yards of that penalty for that foul basically the ball would be in the same place. We do not seem to have "half the distance" issues.

I hope I got that right, but it is hard to read your post with all the caps.

Peace

LOL slow down good buddy .

[cowbyfan1]

I say you have a safety. The force that put the ball thru B's end zone was B's illegal bat. B12 illegally batted the ball thru his own end zone. Team A should decline the facemask and illegal bat by B and penalize half the distance to the 10 on the ensuing free kick for the dead ball foul.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
I say you have a safety. The force that put the ball thru B's end zone was B's illegal bat. B12 illegally batted the ball thru his own end zone. Team A should decline the facemask and illegal bat by B and penalize half the distance to the 10 on the ensuing free kick for the dead ball foul.

I originally was thinking safety also with BÂ’s new force from his batting , but then got so caught up in finding the basic sopt and enforceing one of these penilitys I completly missed this option for A. Looks like I need to slow down some myself . Good call Cowboy Jim

[TXMike]

The result of the play (disregarding all penalties) is a safety. BUT if A accepts the penalty for B's FM foul, the enforcement is from end of related run, i.e. the 50. That would put ball at the 35. Then the 15 yards for UC takes it to the 20, 1st and 10 for A, clock starts on the snap.

If they took the safety then the 15 yards would go on the ensuing free kick so B would kick from their 10.

Tough decision for Coach A.

[BktBallRef]

I don't know the answer because I haven't read the play. I don't do CAPS!!

[Warrenkicker]

Based on NF rules you can't enforce the yardage on the free kick after the safety. Look on page 73 of the rules book under Fouls on Scoring Plays the last line.

I would say that since you never had a change of possession that A would decline the facemask foul just because it happened so far up field. It did happen during a loose-ball play and thus is enforced from the end of the run which is the 50. Then if they don't want the safety then they would accept the illegal batting from the 10 and then the DB taunting and have 1st and goal from the 2.5

[TXMike]

Apparently Fed rules prohibit all batting of fumbles? NCAA only prohibits batting them forward or batting them any direction if in EZ.

[cmathews]

warrenkicker,
Good call on the safety not being included in the new scoring/penalty enforcement....I agree A at the 2.5 or a safety....

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by TXMike
Apparently Fed rules prohibit all batting of fumbles? NCAA only prohibits batting them forward or batting them any direction if in EZ.

Right Mike. Federation forbids batting of fumbles regardless of direction.

[PiggSkin]

A couple comments:

1) The UC penalty CAN be enforced after the safety for either of two reasons:
a) UC penalties are ALWAYS enforced from the succeeding spot. This is not part of the new rule.
b) This was happened after the play was over. You can't lump a dead ball foul with the results of the previous play

2) The first fumble (at the 50) and the ensuing chaos is all part of the original running play. Since the fumble happened five yards beyond the LOS, it is not a loose ball play.

My question is this: If accepted, would the face mask penalty be applied to the end of the original run, or the end of the second run..?

[James Neil]

Originally posted by PiggSkin
A couple comments:

1) The UC penalty CAN be enforced after the safety for either of two reasons:
a) UC penalties are ALWAYS enforced from the succeeding spot. This is not part of the new rule.
b) This was happened after the play was over. You can't lump a dead ball foul with the results of the previous play

2) The first fumble (at the 50) and the ensuing chaos is all part of the original running play. Since the fumble happened five yards beyond the LOS, it is not a loose ball play.

My question is this: If accepted, would the face mask penalty be applied to the end of the original run, or the end of the second run..?

It will be enforced from the end of it's related run which was the 50. If the illegal batting is accepted it will be enforced from the end of it's related run , the B-10.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by Bob M.

Right Mike. Federation forbids batting of fumbles regardless of direction.

Now Bob, as you well know thats not quite right . How about batting a fumble that's in flight ?