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-   -   Is this holding? (https://forum.officiating.com/football/96980-holding.html)

voiceoflg Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:29pm

Is this holding?
 
Is the FSU player on the right (background) holding the Auburn player?

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...16595658_n.jpg

Rich Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by voiceoflg (Post 917469)
Is the FSU player on the right (background) holding the Auburn player?

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...16595658_n.jpg

Doesn't look like it to me based on just that still shot.

HLin NC Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:42pm

Holding him from what?

voiceoflg Thu Jan 09, 2014 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLin NC (Post 917472)
Holding him from what?

There is a debate on one of the message boards about the FSU player's right hand grabbing under the shoulder pads of the Auburn player. Some say it is holding, others say it is not. I don't know, so that is why I asked here.

JRutledge Thu Jan 09, 2014 01:24pm

Is he being taken down?

Is he prevented from movement?

Is it a material restriction?

Does the offensive player have stronger legs (driving the opponent backwards)?

Who knows, you cannot tell anything by a still pitcher.

Peace

HLin NC Thu Jan 09, 2014 01:47pm

Nothing to debate LG. It may be holding using the dictionary definition but what is the defender being prevented from doing? Think advantage/disadvantage. This is why fans don't understand officiating and think we all suck.

What is the play? Where is the ball? What is he being prevented from doing?
He ain't sacking the QB, he ain't defending the pass. He sure ain't gonna get the pick.

I'm not sure why he is still blocking. The others have turned to watch.

Mike L Thu Jan 09, 2014 01:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by voiceoflg (Post 917476)
There is a debate on one of the message boards about the FSU player's right hand grabbing under the shoulder pads of the Auburn player. Some say it is holding, others say it is not. I don't know, so that is why I asked here.

At the point in time of the photo the action in question is at the 5 yd line, the ball has already been thrown and appears to be 3-4 yds deep into the endzone. What advantage is being gained to make anyone want to call that?

Ianr Thu Jan 09, 2014 04:42pm

even if it is holding (which as stated above is impossible to tell with one still shot), it is not at the point of attack, nor does it seem to be a safety hazard, no flag.

CT1 Thu Jan 09, 2014 05:13pm

Absolutely not. He has his entire body between the defender and the QB, & isn't beaten.

bisonlj Thu Jan 09, 2014 06:04pm

This is an example where someone who says "you could call holding on any play". There could have been a hold before this picture but by this point holding isn't possible at the LOS.

JugglingReferee Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:06am

I think it's holding. I'm launching a lawsuit.

Texas Aggie Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:55am

The ball is in the receiver's hands. We are WELL past the point of attack.

bob jenkins Fri Jan 10, 2014 09:11am

I'm not a FB official, but I know enough to know that the actions aren't holding on this play.

But, what if it had been a running play and at the time of the picture, the running back was at about the 5-yard line and the hash marks -- just behind the FSU lineman. Does this action now qualify as holding? (With the usual caveats that you can't always tell from a still photo)

MD Longhorn Fri Jan 10, 2014 09:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 917628)
I'm not a FB official, but I know enough to know that the actions aren't holding on this play.

But, what if it had been a running play and at the time of the picture, the running back was at about the 5-yard line and the hash marks -- just behind the FSU lineman. Does this action now qualify as holding? (With the usual caveats that you can't always tell from a still photo)

Not yet, but potentially. The caveat you've quoted is actually way more than one might think. The majority of the things you need to see to judge holding are not in existence in an instant - they require movement. Restriction of movement is impossible to see when there's no movement.

If the defender is trying to move toward the OL at the moment of this photo, this is not holding. If he's trying to move laterally or away from the OL, and the OL lets go before he prevents him from moving laterally or away - it's not holding.

And generally, if the hands are within the frame of the OL, it's not going to be holding in any case.

bob jenkins Fri Jan 10, 2014 09:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 917631)
And generally, if the hands are within the frame of the OL, it's not going to be holding in any case.

Are these hands "within the frame of the OL"?


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