Packers-Bears fumble
 

Video request. 3:35 in 2nd quarter.

I do not need video. It was a great job by the officials. ;)

Peace

If the play is still live, why did the official on the far sideline step several yards onto the field?

Probably waiting to see if anyone had anything different.

I don't know, maybe you can ask him when you get the chance.

Peace

Why JRut, everyone knows asking you is the next best thing! :)

I do not know what everyone wants and really do not care, but I know that in order for any of us to know why someone did something, we would likely have to talk to them personally. But that does not expect you thinking you will get an answer outside of an opinion.

Peace

Everytime an official makes a mis-step, the play is dead? Wow -- we'd never finish my games. ;)

Sorry. I wasn't recording the game and couldn't rewind that far. I'm sure you'll see it all over the "highlight" shows. On second thought, deadspin may have it:

Packers Score Bizarre Touchdown On Play Everybody Thought Was Dead

Certainly not! I don't do football so I honestly didn't know if the official made a mistake or not. I came here to find out. Is this "mis-step" something that might result in a downgrade?

He might have, but that mistake had nothing to do with the play continuing or being dead. I would not even be totally surprised if the officials gets a downgrade for that play because of his movement. Part of the evaluation process is on plays has to do with mechanics and positioning. If the whistle was not blown, the play continues it is that simple.

Peace

Are you suggesting there is something inherently wrong with, or there is some specific conclusion to be made by, "the official on the far sideline stepping onto the field"?

Since you acknowledge, "I don't do football so I honestly didn't know if the official made a mistake or not" wouldn't it seem somewhat more reasonable to consider the responses from people who do work football that doing so does not point to any specific conclusion?

It seems logical, that official was appropriately pre-occupied with his responsibilities in his coverage area, and may simply have been seeking clarification of what was happening in the area of responsibility where the ball was loose. Apparently none of the 7 whistles on the field sounded, which would have signaled a play stoppage, so all of the field officials were focusing on whether such a signal would be coming.

In the absence of any official signalling that play had ended, play is understood to be continuing.

That's exactly what I'm doing here, I am asking questions of those more knowledgeable than I. Don't treat me like I'm hbk314.

I have not suggested anything. But since you ask, I do have a question:

Is it possible that the sideline official stepping on the field may have led the Bears to believe the play was over?

Not at that level.

If it did, shame on the Bears players. And I say this as a Bears fan who watched the play and spent those few seconds yelling at my TV.

How's being a Bears fan in Minneapolis go over? lol

There was no intent to impugn, AmremRed, but I didn't understand your question, and rather than speculate what you meant, I thought asking for clarification would be better.

Although I have no personal experience working at the NFL level, I don't believe "a sideline official stepping on the field", in and of itself, sends any signal that a play has ended on that level any more than it does at other levels.

Players are not paying that close attention to any official anyway. And considering how every game is played from HS to the pros, players often play until they literally hear a whistle. They even play until the whistle even when the rules says that a play is dead often without a whistle. An officials have to judge if a play over and when that play should be dead with or without a whistle.

Peace

Probably tortuous, being in the middle of all those people who think the Vikings are the Packers' main rival.

This is a very close call, and the R got it right IMHO.

That said: From a practical standpoint, when all the participants have stopped playing in the belief that the play is over, I'd have no problem with a delayed "incomplete pass" call on this play.

The Packers are the Vikings main rival... however, the Bears are the Packers main rival, and the Packers are the Bears main rival. The Vikings are basically the forgotten step-children of the division.

And it's a lot of fun to needle Vikings fans with "Christian Ponder limited in practice due to being Christian Ponder" type jokes.


Maybe in a 7th grade game or below... no way I'm doing that in any higher level game than that.

If you are going to do that you would rule a fumble with nobody attempting to possess it. It would be Green Bay's ball at the location of the ball. You would not make this incomplete because nobody was acting on it.

Agree. As an old WH of mine used to say "lean in there and say 'gitit, gitit, gitit' ":) Maybe why the wing official stepped in a little, although my guess he just had a natural reaction to the thought it was incomplete.

A similar issue came up on this board in baseball or softball when a ball was batted near the plate, picked up in fair ground, and then the players on both teams acted as if it were a foul ball. The consensus seemed to be to let the players have it that way if that's what they believed, rather than ruling it as a ball in play with strange results.

The difference is that football, unlike baseball, has a rules provision specifically covering the situation.

However, a closely allied question came up here a while ago about whether it was good for an official to tell a player that a ball was still live after that player mistakenly let the ball down in his own end zone thinking to make it dead.

Sure as hell wasn't the baseball board. That is not the right answer.

I'd be highly surprised if that kind of consensus were reached on either the baseball or softball forum.

Now maybe the LL forum on another site...

The correct answer for those scoring at home is:

Keep pointing fair until somebody gets it.

Only if the Bears are 8th graders. And even if there was, it's not correctable by rule. Only an IW would have that effect.

Can't do that - GB not only attempted to possess it, but did, in actuality, possess the ball --- he just didn't do anything immediately after possessing it.

That possibility was raised, but what to do when the catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher, runners return to their bases, the batter stays put, and the pitcher delivers the "next pitch"?

You don't let the pitcher deliver the next pitch.

I think you are confusing this with a balk call followed by a batted ball followed by nobody moving. Here, enforce the balk.

How can you stop him? The ball was fielded in fair ground and thrown to him, so it should be in play. He's allowed to throw a ball in play toward the plate, isn't he? Do you just blurt out, "Fools, the ball is in play!"?

Same question came up regarding a player fielding a kickoff under NCAA rules in his end zone and then attempting to flip it to an official.
There may have been such a discussion here, but the baseball/softball situation I'm describing was also discussed.

Eventually someone's going to notice the plate umpire standing off to the side with his mask off pointing into fair territory and do something about it.

Stand between the plate and the mound.

And, yes, if the players are that clueless, an oral declaration to both sides that it's still a live ball is a possibility.

Frankly, if you let the pitcher get anywhere near the mound, then you're turning an interesting / unusual situation into something approaching Calvinball.

Ugh - no. Stand in foul ground, mask off, pointing fair.

Please, anyone reading this - don't ever do that.

I'm not following this one. How would the umpire prevent any player from being wherever they want on the field? There's no way to prevent the pitcher from going to the mound/pitching circle ... especially given that he/she started there and very possibly never left.

On this play, simply get out from behind and point fair. Anyone who has worked lower levels has had this exact situation happen numerous times. SOMEONE eventually gets it. Pitchers who retrieve the ball aren't likely to pitch without the umpire back there... if the coach hasn't started yelling either "RUN!!!" or "THROW IT TO FIRST!!!" by this point, the pitcher might be the first one to figure it out. Hmmm.. why don't I see an umpire? Oh, there he is. Oh, he's pointing fair....

If, in some bizarro world TWP (which, in 21 years, I've never either seen happen or heard of happening from any of my umpires) the fielder retrieves the ball, gets back on the mound (or PC), and throws the ball again toward the catcher and the batter-runner, still with bat in hand, hits it - THEN we have interference on that BR, and can apply the proper rules.

DO NOT SAY FAIR. DO NOT STAND ON THE FIELD. DO NOT PREVENT THE PITCHER FROM GOING WHEREVER THEY WANT.

Rant off. :)

All that baseball/softball stuff said... I had a strange one several years ago in football where no one knew the ball was live. I think I posted it here when it happened.

8th grade team lined up for an extra point snaps the ball to the holder, who was not yet ready for it and was standing up. Defense, for whatever reason, didn't rush in. Holder caught it and went forward to hand it to the snapper again. Snapper was, luckily for him, more than a yard back and facing the snapper (i.e. away from the goal line). Snapper puts the ball back down. (As an aside, at this point I notice my LJ has left his position under the goal post and sprinted for the goal line on his side - his first year, I gave him huge kudos for game awareness there).

Nose tackle, for whatever reason, picks up the ball and acts like he wants to hand it to someone (an umpire, we guessed later), sees no one and drops the ball. It rolls into the endzone. Snapper retrieves it.

Both of my partners blew their whistles and signaled the PAT good. Made for a fun conversation with both coaches. Defensive coach insisted something must have been illegal and they shouldn't get the PAT. Offensive coach was upset because in this league, 8th graders get 2 points for kicking or passing a PAT, and 1 for rushing. He wanted the 2 for kicking, and was upset he lost the opportunity.

I stand by my comments but this is the FB board. I do agree that it's "never" going to happen except in some bizarro world.

If it was otherwise Federation rules, then his team got a gift, because the ball should've become dead when the D player picked it up.

This past season in a game I was coaching, both teams left a ball lying on the ground after a pass went backward 5 yds. I was trying to somehow shout to my players to get the ball while not letting the other team hear me. Wish I had a recording of myself trying to do that.

Mike, like myself, calls under NCAA rules. Nowhere in Texas will you find football played under Federation rules.

"Is this the right ball?"

Objection! Relevance, Your Honor.

I strenuously object!
:D

Oh, if you strenuously object, I shall take some time to reconsider.