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-   -   NCAA : Ohio v E Carolina onside kick (https://forum.officiating.com/football/96855-ncaa-ohio-v-e-carolina-onside-kick.html)

#olderthanilook Mon Dec 23, 2013 05:10pm

NCAA : Ohio v E Carolina onside kick
 
Ohio kick off travels 10 yds in the air and caught by K2. Apparently legal play in NCAA??

MD Longhorn Mon Dec 23, 2013 05:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 915709)
Ohio kick off travels 10 yds in the air and caught by K2. Apparently legal play in NCAA??

What are we thinking would make this illegal?

Welpe Mon Dec 23, 2013 05:22pm

I'm assuming you're talking about KCI implications?

In NCAA, it is not KCI for Team A (Team K) to touch a free kick in flight unless Team B (Team R) is in position to catch the ball.

MD Longhorn Mon Dec 23, 2013 05:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 915712)
I'm assuming you're talking about KCI implications?

In NCAA, it is not KCI for Team A (Team K) to touch a free kick in flight unless Team B (Team R) is in position to catch the ball.

I'm now worried to ask this ...

But are you implying that in FED it IS kick catch interference to touch a free kick in flight if there's no catch to be interfered with? (I'm quite worried you're going to say yes... my next question is "Why in the world would the make such a rule?!?!?")

Welpe Mon Dec 23, 2013 05:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 915713)
But are you implying that in FED it IS kick catch interference to touch a free kick in flight if there's no catch to be interfered with?

Yes. This is only true on a free kick, scrimmage kicks require somebody to be in a position to catch the kick.

Quote:

(I'm quite worried you're going to say yes... my next question is "Why in the world would the make such a rule?!?!?")
There's enough of that going around right now. I don't know. ;)

MD Longhorn Mon Dec 23, 2013 05:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 915714)
Yes. This is only true on a free kick, scrimmage kicks require somebody to be in a position to catch the kick.



There's enough of that going around right now. I don't know. ;)

I guess I shouldn't say anything about that not being logical then. :)

Raymond Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 915709)
Ohio kick off travels 10 yds in the air and caught by K2. Apparently legal play in NCAA??

And illegal in the NFL.

What is the logic in it being legal in one, but not the other? :D

ajmc Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 915713)
I'm now worried to ask this ...

But are you implying that in FED it IS kick catch interference to touch a free kick in flight if there's no catch to be interfered with? (I'm quite worried you're going to say yes... my next question is "Why in the world would the make such a rule?!?!?")

Perhaps because they offer different conclusions. Until fairly recently, CATCHING either a Free Kick or Scrimmage Kick by K constituted KCI, until it was changed for a Scrimmage Kick exception being allowed to give K the opportunity to "Down" a scrimmage kick, before the ball hit the ground (which was a previous requirement). When K (legally) "catches" a scrimmage kick, it is considered 1st touching, and R retains the right to take possession of the ball at that spot.

On Free Kicks, the rules are different, if K gains possession of a Free Kick, they get to maintain possession, provided (as long stated by existing rule) the kick travels beyond the FKZ (10 yards) AND has touched the ground. (those requirements can be satisfied in either order).

If, after both requirements have been satisfied, and K RECOVERS a free kick, they retain possession of the ball, from the spot of recovery.

voiceoflg Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook (Post 915709)
Ohio kick off travels 10 yds in the air and caught by K2. Apparently legal play in NCAA??

I knew this was legal in NCAA and assumed it was legal in NFHS when I saw it my second year doing radio. I blasted the refs for calling it KCI. My dad (football, basketball and baseball official for 20+ years) called me that night after I got home and told me to look up the rule. I did and was promptly embarrassed. The next week I corrected myself and even apologized on air to the crew.

Made me want to learn the rules so I don't make a fool of myself anymore.

APG Thu Dec 26, 2013 03:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 915746)
And illegal in the NFL.

What is the logic in it being legal in one, but not the other? :D

NFL rule the same as NCAA. Only difference is NCAA extends the protections through a kick that is driven directly into the ground and goes into the air. NFL does not:

A.R. 6.5 ONSIDE KICK—KICKER CATCHES

Team A tries an onside kick which goes into the air and is caught by A2 at the A47: a) No Team B player was near the ball; or b) B2 could have caught ball.
Rulings: a) A’s ball, first-and-10 on A47. Legal catch and recovery. b) B’s ball, first-and-10 on A32. Interference with the opportunity to catch a kick.

Raymond Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by APG (Post 915933)
NFL rule the same as NCAA. Only difference is NCAA extends the protections through a kick that is driven directly into the ground and goes into the air. NFL does not:

A.R. 6.5 ONSIDE KICK—KICKER CATCHES

Team A tries an onside kick which goes into the air and is caught by A2 at the A47: a) No Team B player was near the ball; or b) B2 could have caught ball.
Rulings: a) A’s ball, first-and-10 on A47. Legal catch and recovery. b) B’s ball, first-and-10 on A32. Interference with the opportunity to catch a kick.

I only knew the rule even existed at all b/c in Indy's famous 2003 21 point comeback vs. Tampa Bay, the NFL said the officials erred in not penalizing the Colts on their on-side kick recovery that never hit the ground.


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