Hit on Bengals punter

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Do you realize that the NFL only dresses about 45 players for a game out of a 53 man roster and there's no back up punter or kicker?

I'm sure there is one in the depth chart or at least in a coach's head, it's just that there'll be a big drop-off in performance from that of the starter -- probably not huge in the case of the punter, but huge in the case of the place kicker.

What I find funny is that the NFL doesn't outlaw deliberate hits above the shoulders or with the helmet generally. It may be that they do, but are just looking for the foul more in the case of those players who tend to wear the bull's eye.

[Rich]

You know, none of these rules would even exist if there wasn't a history of teams targetinging punters, kickers, and QBs for the sole intent of blowing them up.

There's no reason I should have to follow a punter or a QB around the field after their role as QB or punter is over. But I have to because of this nonsense. And I'll flag anything excessive (and I have) in a heartbeat.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Rich

You know, none of these rules would even exist if there wasn't a history of teams targetinging punters, kickers, and QBs for the sole intent of blowing them up.

There's no reason I should have to follow a punter or a QB around the field after their role as QB or punter is over. But I have to because of this nonsense. And I'll flag anything excessive (and I have) in a heartbeat.

That makes more sense. I can only think ofa couple examples from the NFL level off the top of my head.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by hbk314

That makes more sense. I can only think ofa couple examples from the NFL level off the top of my head.

Probably because of the rule, to be honest. Without it....

[bisonlj]

I think the biggest issue here is the use of the word defenseless. People try to apply the dictionary definition rather than the rule book definition (similar to uncatchable). Maybe "protected" would be a better word.

Someone who truly knows and understands the rules realizes very quickly how important the definitions are. This is a great example. There is another rule that refers to what is illegal against "defenseless" players. That means defenseless has to be defined and referenced in other places. Rather than saying what can't be done to a passer or kicker, they identified them as defenseless and applied the protections defined elsewhere in the book.

I've heard so many people getting hung up on the word "defenseless" because he's obviously not defenseless in this situation (unless you want to consider this a blindside hit). It's a defined player designation which brings certain certain rules into play.

[HLin NC]

The solution is to coach your punter not to put himself in the "war zone" or to stay out of the play altogether.

But the NFL owners, who are really the only people whose opinion matters, opted not to choose that solution. Thus it is what it is, a situation you find foolish, yet out of your control.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by hbk314

That makes more sense. I can only think of a couple examples from the NFL level off the top of my head.

If you're not at the games, it can be hard to see, because the camera's usually looking elsewhere. I used to see in various adult games (amateur or pro) sometimes 3 opponents go straight for the kicker at the kickoff. Obviously it would be to the team's detriment tactically to do that, because it's not as if the kicker was such a great cover player that you need to knock him off with 3 blockers, but they expected to benefit strategically by knocking him out of the game, especially if they were scheduled to play more games with the same opposing team.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I think the biggest issue here is the use of the word defenseless. People try to apply the dictionary definition rather than the rule book definition

Especially since outside of the NFL, the term is commonly applied in football in its ordinary meaning.

But say...has anyone here actually verified that this is a technical term now in NFL? Or are we just assuming it?

[hbk314]

One potential issue is that you have the punter ona return potentially in with all of his teammates. It shouldn't be the responsibility of a return team member to have to identify the one guy out of the 11 he can't block a certain way.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Especially since outside of the NFL, the term is commonly applied in football in its ordinary meaning.

But say...has anyone here actually verified that this is a technical term now in NFL? Or are we just assuming it?

The NFL defined has defined who is considered in a defenseless posture:

Article 7: Players in a Defenseless Posture.
It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

(a) Players in a defenseless posture are:

(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;
(3) A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped;
(4) A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air;
(5) A player on the ground;
(6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return (Also see Article 6(g) for additional restrictions against a kicker/punter);
(7) A quarterback at any time after a change of possession (Also see Article 8(f) for additional restrictions against a quarterback after a change of possession);
(8) A player who receives a ―blindside block when the offensive blocker is moving toward or parallel to his own end line and approaches the opponent from behind or from the side, and
(9) A player who is protected from an illegal crackback block (see Article 2);
(10) The offensive player who attempts a snap during a Field Goal attempt or a Try Kick.

****

Part 10 is a new rule for this year.

[APG]

Originally Posted by hbk314

One potential issue is that you have the punter ona return potentially in with all of his teammates. It shouldn't be the responsibility of a return team member to have to identify the one guy out of the 11 he can't block a certain way.

It's not hard to figure out who the punter or the kicker is is...he's the guy who..kicked the ball and who you've probably seen on film countless times during the week before. The onus is on the player to know who he's blocking. If in doubt, don't blow him up in the head or use the crown against his body...or illegally launch into him.

[Matt]

Out of morbid curiosity, I want to see a thread between HBK and Rut. The amount of bloviating and paths beaten around the mulberry bush would make a used-car salesman feel like a mute preacher.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Matt

Out of morbid curiosity, I want to see a thread between HBK and Rut. The amount of bloviating and paths beaten around the mulberry bush would make a used-car salesman feel like a mute preacher.

There's a couple. WISCONSIN - ASU and the Gronkowski play come to mind.

[HLin NC]

Lord, no. Let them remain dead.

[Eastshire]

Had it not been the punter who was blocked, was this otherwise a legal block? Or was our non-punter A1 otherwise defenseless?