fumble, then penalty, then run

[jTheUmp]

A will decline the penalty for the Facemask, and accept the result of the play.

1st and 10 for A at the B-20.

A could also accept the penalty from the basic spot: the end of the related run at the 50 yard line, giving them first and 10 from the B-45 (for a 5-yard FM) or from the B-30 (for a 15-yard FM), but I don't see any sane Team A coach choosing that option.

All of these are assuming that, if we're operating under FED rules, the run and/or penalty enforcement places the ball beyond the line-to-gain, as there is no AFD provision for FM fouls in FED.

[SamG]

I don't know the rules (I'm a fan, not an official), but I thought the offense couldn't advance a fumble. Or does that only apply to NCAA or NFL?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SamG

I don't know the rules (I'm a fan, not an official), but I thought the offense couldn't advance a fumble. Or does that only apply to NCAA or NFL?

That would be incorrect. If the ball is fumbled anyone can advance a fumble except on 4th down in the NCAA (probably the NFL but not sure). And in the NCAA only the player with the ball that fumbled is restricted to advancing the ball. But on any other down if there is a fumble the anyone can advance. I think you might be confusing what happens on a fumble out of bounds that is fumbled forward which has to be brought back tot he spot of the fumble in NCAA and NFL rules. High school rules anyone in any situation can recover a fumble and advance it in all situations.

Peace

[SamG]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That would be incorrect. If the ball is fumbled anyone can advance a fumble except on 4th down in the NCAA (probably the NFL but not sure). And in the NCAA only the player with the ball that fumbled is restricted to advancing the ball. But on any other down if there is a fumble the anyone can advance. I think you might be confusing what happens on a fumble out of bounds that is fumbled forward which has to be brought back tot he spot of the fumble in NCAA and NFL rules. High school rules anyone in any situation can recover a fumble and advance it in all situations.

Peace

Thank you for the clarification.

[whitehat]

"Y"anked (as in 15 yard FM) not "ranked" ;-)..sorry about the typo. And yes we are talking NF. I agree with the enforcements.
I bring it up simply becasue we don't often use or have occassion to use that bean bag as a spot of enforcement and we might easily just make this a "tack on" penatly from the end of the last run, instead of the related run where the fumble and penalty occurred. Nice work guys!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by whitehat

"Y"anked (as in 15 yard FM) not "ranked" ;-)..sorry about the typo. And yes we are talking NF. I agree with the enforcements.
I bring it up simply becasue we don't often use or have occassion to use that bean bag as a spot of enforcement and we might easily just make this a "tack on" penatly from the end of the last run, instead of the related run where the fumble and penalty occurred. Nice work guys!

Interesting ... almost every single time we bean bag, we do so because that's a possible spot of enforcement. I don't agree with the "not often" statement, and very much don't agree with the "might easily" part. At least ... not if you have done this very long.

[whitehat]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Interesting ... almost every single time we bean bag, we do so because that's a possible spot of enforcement. I don't agree with the "not often" statement, and very much don't agree with the "might easily" part. At least ... not if you have done this very long.

MD, just to clarify, we do use bean bags all the time: fumbles, end of kicks, momentum, etc. And, as you said, we do bean bag because it is a potential enforcement spot.

However, I have been officiating for 30 years and cannot remember more than a few times where we actualy needed to enforce from the bean bag spot on a fumble due to the way the play ended or when the penalty occurred. I have more often experienced bean bag spot enforcements in FC situations or scrimmage kick situations but seldom have I ever needed to use the bean bag spot from a fumble as an enforcemnt spot.

[APG]

Originally Posted by SamG

I don't know the rules (I'm a fan, not an official), but I thought the offense couldn't advance a fumble. Or does that only apply to NCAA or NFL?

NFL: Only on fourth down and after the two minute warning...only the person who fumbles the ball can recover and advance it. This also plays during any try after a score.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

A could also accept the penalty from the basic spot: the end of the related run at the 50 yard line, giving them first and 10 from the B-45 (for a 5-yard FM) or from the B-30 (for a 15-yard FM), but I don't see any sane Team A coach choosing that option.

Last play of game with A trailing by 8 or less. The A coach would likely accept the penalty to give his team one more shot.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by CT1

Last play of game with A trailing by 8 or less. The A coach would likely accept the penalty to give his team one more shot.

Fine, come up with an example where it actually makes sense to accept the penalty. Be that way.



And, IMHO, there should ALWAYS be a bean bag on a fumble. Even if it can't be an enforcement spot.

However, there are two times where I won't throw my bean bag on a fumble:
1) As an Umpire, if the ball carrier fumbles inside the 5 yard line going in. (I don't know if the wing has the ball in the end zone already or not, and I don't want my bean bag on the ground when the H and L are signaling a touchdown).
2) As an U, H, or L, when we have a fumble-or-incomplete-pass situation by the quarterback. I let the R live and die with his call... if he has a fumble, he needs to bean-bag that spot.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

... if he has a fumble, he needs to bean-bag that spot.

No he doesn't.