Who thinks these two are IG??

[JRutledge]

Well if these are games under high school rules, the first one yes the second one no. Seeing the free kick go into the end zone tells me either there is a different rule in this state or that they are playing under NCAA rules. If that is the case then the first one is not IG.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well if these are games under high school rules, the first one yes the second one no. Seeing the free kick go into the end zone tells me either there is a different rule in this state or that they are playing under NCAA rules. If that is the case then the first one is not IG.

Peace

Does anyone know if Arkansas high schools play with NCAA rules? If not, that's a pretty big field position issue on that free kick return.

[bigjohn]

Arkansas? The team if from LA and the team they played was Memphis?

http://www.coachhuey.com/thread/6130...crollTo=611362

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Arkansas? The team if from LA and the team they played was Memphis?

Oops, there was an error! | CoachHuey.com

How were we to know this (and how were we to assume Memphis meant Memphis Tennessee - there are a number of Memphises in this country.

In any case - based on this camera angle alone, I probably have yes on both for high school rules, although I can't see enough of the field to be sure on the 2nd one. No for NCAA rules on the first.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Arkansas? The team if from LA and the team they played was Memphis?

Sorry, West Memphis is in Arkansas. The game was played at the University of Arkansas at Monticello. You'll have to pardon my assumption that this game was played in Arkansas, and unless there's something in that article we can't access, then I'll stick with that assumption. Not that any of that really matters. I wasn't aware that LA, AR, or TN, played by NCAA rules, so my question still applies.

[RadioBlue]

If this is a game played under NF rules (although I have my doubts after seeing the kickoff), then I have IG in both plays. I agree the second play we don't see enough of the field to know for sure. However, after analyzing the video, I'm pretty sure I'd have a flag. The pass lands right on the 35 yard-line. There is no A player to the right edge of the frame which is the 44 YL. The first time you see any A player as the camera pans downfield are a pair of receivers who are moving back toward the LOS at the 47 YL. When that ball landed at the 35, one could assume they were near the 50. No receivers with 15 yards of the ball? I think that's a flag.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

If this is a game played under NF rules (although I have my doubts after seeing the kickoff), then I have IG in both plays. I agree the second play we don't see enough of the field to know for sure. However, after analyzing the video, I'm pretty sure I'd have a flag. The pass lands right on the 35 yard-line. There is no A player to the right edge of the frame which is the 44 YL. The first time you see any A player as the camera pans downfield are a pair of receivers who are moving back toward the LOS at the 47 YL. When that ball landed at the 35, one could assume they were near the 50. No receivers with 15 yards of the ball? I think that's a flag.

Under NF rules, we are to consider the ability of the QB. He was throwing to to something, but he did not appear to have the ability to get it there on the run. That looks a lot more like he was trying to get it to someone. He did not throw it out of bounds like the previous throw. I would do my best to likely talk my Referee out of this call or give information to say that a receiver is in the area.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Does anyone know if Arkansas high schools play with NCAA rules? If not, that's a pretty big field position issue on that free kick return.

I don't think they do, but then again I only know what I have read here about states that play under NCAA rules.

Originally Posted by Adam

Sorry, West Memphis is in Arkansas. The game was played at the University of Arkansas at Monticello. You'll have to pardon my assumption that this game was played in Arkansas, and unless there's something in that article we can't access, then I'll stick with that assumption. Not that any of that really matters. I wasn't aware that LA, AR, or TN, played by NCAA rules, so my question still applies.

I am also aware of West Memphis as my father was from Memphis and driving there you pass West Memphis, Arkansas. One of the reasons I was not sure this was in Tennessee.

Peace

[asdf]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well if these are games under high school rules, the first one yes the second one no.
Peace

I'm curious, what do you see in the second play that under high school rules makes this pass legal?

I've got two easy IG calls here under the HS code.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by asdf

I'm curious, what do you see in the second play that under high school rules makes this pass legal?

I've got two easy IG calls here under the HS code.

That is why they call it judgment right?

Part of the rule is the ability of the QB. It has nothing to do with someone being in the area, it has to do with what he is trying to do. He is clearly to me trying to complete a pass, but his ability is lacking and he is running. I see these kinds of throws all the time in high school. If he was truly dumping the ball, he would have been more causal with the throw. Receivers appear to go too far and not come back to the ball and he tries to throw to a receiver that clearly comes back into the picture. I am giving him every benefit of the doubt in those situations.

Peace

[asdf]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is why they call it judgment right?

Part of the rule is the ability of the QB. It has nothing to do with someone being in the area, it has to do with what he is trying to do. He is clearly to me trying to complete a pass, but his ability is lacking and he is running. I see these kinds of throws all the time in high school. If he was truly dumping the ball, he would have been more causal with the throw. Receivers appear to go too far and not come back to the ball and he tries to throw to a receiver that clearly comes back into the picture. I am giving him every benefit of the doubt in those situations.

Peace

Ok.... I don't agree based on the prior throw, but that's the beauty of what we do... Different viewpoints, different judgments...

[CT1]

2 IGs to me. In #2, the QB is under pressure & appears to try to save yardage.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by asdf

Ok.... I don't agree based on the prior throw, but that's the beauty of what we do... Different viewpoints, different judgments...

I'm pretty liberal in allowing QBs flexibility on dumping the ball in HS. I agree with JRut on this one. I could reasonably say he was trying to get it to those receivers downfield but didn't have the arm to do it. If he was truly grounding it he could have thrown it OOB like he did on the first one or more quickly into the ground. There was plenty of room to truly dump it.

But you are definitely supported by rule to call this IG and should not get downgraded for doing it if evaluated. If I'm your supervisor though I say let this go.

[maven]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Part of the rule is the ability of the QB. It has nothing to do with someone being in the area, it has to do with what he is trying to do.

'Ability' is not in the rule, it's a "factor to consider" mentioned in a case play.

7.5.2 SITUATION C:

Quarterback A1 drops back to pass and while under a good defensive rush, he throws the ball forward:

(a) at the feet of two onrushing defensive linemen; or
(b) 15 yards behind A3 who has run a deep post pattern; or
(c) 5 to 10 feet over the head of eligible A3 who lined up near a sideline.

RULING: Illegal forward pass in (a). In (b) and (c), the referee will have to judge whether the pass was intentionally thrown incomplete or whether A1 was simply unable to throw the ball close to A3.

COMMENT: Some factors to look for in making an intentional-grounding decision are absence of eligible offensive receivers in the area and the "dumping" to avoid loss of distance. The ability and skill of the passer and the pressure of the defense are also factors to consider. (7-5-2d)

There are 2 mistakes here:
(1) we should not use "ability" as the primary criterion of IG. The main question, as stated in the COMMENT, is the absence of eligibles and whether the QB is dumping the ball. By those measures, the play in question is IG.
(2) The "ability" question concerns the QB's capacity to play through contact or make a throw while scrambling. In the play in question, ability doesn't enter the matter: there is no contact, and he's clearly dumping the ball. I say "clearly" because the ball goes right where he throws it.

Sure, some of this is judgment. But there's good judgment and bad judgment, and the concepts in play in the rule do not warrant just any call in these cases. IMO, these plays are not borderline.

[bigjohn]

Pretty sure only Texas and Mass play under NCAA rules.
You are right though it was played in AR. The guy that posted it is from LA.

Sorry I should have just said, in NFHS rule set.