Handling Profanity?

[mikesears]

On the OTHER board, there is a disussion going on regarding how to handle profanity on the field. For sake of discussion, let's assume we are working a VARSITY game. Here are some situations for which I would like your input.

1. Player A87 drops and pass and quietly mutters a profanity to himself.


2. Player A87 drops a pass and yells at the top of his lungs something profane about the fact that he dropped the pass.


3. Player A7 gets into A87's face after A87 drops and pass and calls him a racial slur.


4. Player B23 gets into A87's face and makes fun of A87 for dropping a pass.


5. Team A is in the huddle and A7 (trying to pump up his team) yells something profane about the other team or utters a racial slur about members of the other team.




How do you handle profanity when you hear it? Does it matter what level is being worked? If so, what level do you relax a little bit?

Just curious how other handle hearing profanity.

Thanks!

[Schultj]

I think that these are all personal calls, so it is good to see how others would call it.

#1-Probably let it pass. I might say something to him to let him now I'm watching him like "hustle back 87".

#2-Definite warning, boarderline flag. If he yells it so all can hear it so as to make a spectacle of himself, flag it. If he's way downfield and few hear, I would think that a strong warning would do.

#3-Definite flag here, no doubt on this one. The question for me would be ejection. I would lean towards yes, but I would confer with my crewmates first.

#4-Definite taunting, flag it.

#5-Tough call. I would say flag it because the comment only will serve to instigate further verbal exchanges between the teams.

Side note-The NF has once again made a point of emphasis that the rule book does not have an provisions for warnings on this, and that officials should be flagging this more often.

[TXMike]

I agree with the above except for 3 and 5.

I would make sure a coach knows about what took place in 3 & 5 and then let him deal with it as I imagine 99.9% of them will.

[PSU213]

Originally posted by Schultj
I think that these are all personal calls, so it is good to see how others would call it.

#1-Probably let it pass. I might say something to him to let him now I'm watching him like "hustle back 87".

#2-Definite warning, boarderline flag. If he yells it so all can hear it so as to make a spectacle of himself, flag it. If he's way downfield and few hear, I would think that a strong warning would do.

#3-Definite flag here, no doubt on this one. The question for me would be ejection. I would lean towards yes, but I would confer with my crewmates first.

#4-Definite taunting, flag it.

#5-Tough call. I would say flag it because the comment only will serve to instigate further verbal exchanges between the teams.

Side note-The NF has once again made a point of emphasis that the rule book does not have an provisions for warnings on this, and that officials should be flagging this more often.

Like TXMike, I agree with all except 3 and 5.

For #3 I agree this a definite flag. In the Fed rule book for this section under penalties its says "any single flagrant foul is disqualification." Personally, I don't consider a player using a single racial slur to be "flagrant" per se, so I would not DQ unless there was more than just the one slur or he really got in his face with multiple slurs and profanities. I think this is an area where the chapter should adopt a single standard. A coach is probably not going to be too happy if one week his opponent is only penalized for using a racial slur, when the next, his man is DQed in a similar situation.

As for #5 I'm not going to flag it if the other team or other people in the area can't hear it. The only way I will likely flag it here is if it is clearly intended for the other team to hear it and/or they continue to use profanities after being warned. No matter who hears this in the this situation, I will warn them and talk to the coach.

[Edited by PSU213 on Aug 2nd, 2003 at 06:02 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by mikesears

1. Player A87 drops and pass and quietly mutters a profanity to himself.

Just a quiet warning.

Player A87 drops a pass and yells at the top of his lungs something profane about the fact that he dropped the pass.

Flag - USC

Player A7 gets into A87's face after A87 drops and pass and calls him a racial slur.

Flag - USC and ejection.

Player B23 gets into A87's face and makes fun of A87 for dropping a pass.

Flag - USC and ejection.

Team A is in the huddle and A7 (trying to pump up his team) yells something profane about the other team or utters a racial slur about members of the other team.

Flag - USC and ejection.

Our state association requires that any player who taunts/baits an opponent, or who directs profantiy an opponent or an official is ejected from the contest and is suspended for the next game. Items 3-5 would fall within that requirement.

[TXMike]

The way I read # 3, the player is talking to his own player. You are gonna DQ for that????

[Edited by TXMike on Aug 2nd, 2003 at 10:13 PM]

[Ed Hickland]

I agree with all the responses to 1,2 and 4 since these are going to be individual situations that require mature judgement from the official(s) hearing the utterance.

Having spent a year in California and 20 in New York, the one thing that differed about sportsmanship in general was the CA players were less prone to foul language and I think Long Islanders wrote the book on profanity.

It is really going to depend on your region.

As for numbers 3 and 5, there is no place in sports for desciptions of anatomy, ancestry, religion, creed, etc.

Number 3 is between teammates and if the player does not loudly verbalize I would remind him and his coach of the fact and the potential.

Number 5 sounds like intimidation and would be rewarded with, at least, an unsportsmanlike. Compare that with someone in the huddle going, "I'm going to hurt that SOB." That player would get a USC and a threat that if that player (the SOB) was injured he would be thrown out even if he wasn't on the field. (There is no thought of doing such a questionable call but does the player know that).

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by TXMike
The way I read # 3, the player is talking to his own player. You are gonna DQ for that????

Good point, missed that. Probably just a word of caution in that sitch.

[Uncle Ernie]

quote:
Player A87 drops and pass and quietly mutters a profanity to himself.

Inform the coach and let him handle it.


quote:
Player A87 drops a pass and yells at the top of his lungs something profane about the fact that he dropped the pass.

Anyone else hear it? If so, flag for USC. If not, let the coach know and let him handle it.


quote:
Player A7 gets into A87's face after A87 drops and pass and calls him a racial slur.

Flag - USC and let the coach know and let him handle it.


quote:
Player B23 gets into A87's face and makes fun of A87 for dropping a pass.

Flag - USC. Let the coach know and explain to him that I have already given him the opportunity to fix it.


quote:
Team A is in the huddle and A7 (trying to pump up his team) yells something profane about the other team or utters a racial slur about members of the other team.

Flag - USC. Let the coach know...

I understand I didn't have any ejections here, but my thought process has been to give the coach every opportunity to correct this type of situation before going to an ejection or flag. In my very, very humble opinion, I think something should be said that all officials are not consistent when handling profanity or slurs (although, it is agreed that we should be). What may bother one official, may not bother another (as evident in the answers here). Letting the coach handle something that may or may not bother us is a lot easier to be consistent with.

Personally, I have a little bit of patience for profanity and ball players. I have no patience for slurs of any kind. However, that being said, the coach may not know me and I want to give him that chance to fix something that he can control and I cannot...

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by mikesears
On the OTHER board, there is a disussion going on regarding how to handle profanity on the field. For sake of discussion, let's assume we are working a VARSITY game. Here are some situations for which I would like your input.

1. Player A87 drops and pass and quietly mutters a profanity to himself.


2. Player A87 drops a pass and yells at the top of his lungs something profane about the fact that he dropped the pass.


3. Player A7 gets into A87's face after A87 drops and pass and calls him a racial slur.


4. Player B23 gets into A87's face and makes fun of A87 for dropping a pass.


5. Team A is in the huddle and A7 (trying to pump up his team) yells something profane about the other team or utters a racial slur about members of the other team.




How do you handle profanity when you hear it? Does it matter what level is being worked? If so, what level do you relax a little bit?

Just curious how other handle hearing profanity.

Thanks!

Cracking down on this behavior was stressed for this past summer's OV league here in Ontario.

For (1), will let it go but perhaps remind the player that we heard that comment. (2 thru 5) call Objectionable Conduct (OC). In 3 and 5, we would consider DQ for the racial slur. If there is no DQ, talk to the HC and mention that siting that player for a bit might help. This puts the onus on the HC and the player.

League rule: a player receiving 3 UR or OC penalties is removed from that game and the next one.

Mike

[ref5678]

Ok let me throw a wrench in here, what if these occured in a sub-varsity contest. junior high, Frosh, JV

[JRutledge]

Player A87 drops and pass and quietly mutters a profanity to himself.

I might say nothing, it depends on how low the words were said.


Player A87 drops a pass and yells at the top of his lungs something profane about the fact that he dropped the pass.

Depends on where he is located on the field. If he is in front of his bench and the coaches get on him, I will let it go and not penalize. If the coach does not do anything, I will let the coach know what I heard and warn the player.


Player A7 gets into A87's face after A87 drops and pass and calls him a racial slur.

It depends. If these are two players of the same race, I will handle this much differnetly than if they are different race or ethnicity. I think things between teammates are always going to have a different dynamic than if they are talking to opponents. I had this actually happen and it was a sign of affection. I pulled the player that used the name aside and told him, "that might be alright when you are hanging out, or when you a surrounded by your peers, but this is a public and professional area. I am not going to tolerate that language in this type of setting." I had no further problems.

Player B23 gets into A87's face and makes fun of A87 for dropping a pass.

Easy USL Penalty.


Team A is in the huddle and A7 (trying to pump up his team) yells something profane about the other team or utters a racial slur about members of the other team.

Depends on the racial breakdown of all the players. If I have two teams with all Black players or All Jewish player, I am not going to handle it the same as if one team is all-Black and the other team is all-white. It will be addressed in some way, but whether there is a flag or no flag.

All of these situations sound easy, but there is never a one size fits all situation. I did a game during the last week of the year between big time, cross town rivals. Players from both sides knew each other very well (personally knew each other) and had great respect for each other. It was kind of weird, because on one hand they want to destroy the other team, but were very respectful of each other. What appeared to be trash talking at times was signs of great respect. And when there was some trash talking, it was not malicious. So you have to take every situation differently and cannot say, "in all these situations I am going to do this.....or I am going to do that." This is the reasons you need to know as much about your game as possible before you get there. Then evaluate each situation when things happen.

Just my two cents.

Peace

[TXMike]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Player A7 gets into A87's face after A87 drops and pass and calls him a racial slur.

It depends. If these are two players of the same race, I will handle this much differnetly than if they are different race or ethnicity. I think things between teammates are always going to have a different dynamic than if they are talking to opponents. I had this actually happen and it was a sign of affection. I pulled the player that used the name aside and told him, "that might be alright when you are hanging out, or when you a surrounded by your peers, but this is a public and professional area. I am not going to tolerate that language in this type of setting." I had no further problems.

That is BS!!! Are you going to decide whether or not to throw a flag based on the gender/race/ethnicity, etc of the sender and receiver? #1 - They are on a team. Let the team deal with the issue by informing the coach. We are there to "referee" between the 2 teams, not to "referee" within" the team. #2 - If it is wrong for a white player to call a black player a N____ then it is wrong for a Black to call another Black the same thing.

If 2 black teams are playing and 1 Black on 1 team calls another Black on the other team a N____, are you going to flag?

And what if they are Hispanic kids and speaking in Spanish? How are you going to know what to flag then?

[Sleeper]

TXMike,

If you need some help with Spanish swearing, I think I could come up with a list of the biggies to flag for...

In all seriousness, if it is directed at the player's teammates or himself, then I warn and try some preventive officating first. If it is directed at the other team, I warn for minor offenses and flag for the biggies. If it happens again, or it is really blatent, they get a ticket to watch the rest of the game. It is really on a case by case, situation by situation decision. The tone of the game, timing, ancellary activity, etc. will all come into play on how I deal with it.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by TXMike


That is BS!!! Are you going to decide whether or not to throw a flag based on the gender/race/ethnicity, etc of the sender and receiver? #1 - They are on a team. Let the team deal with the issue by informing the coach. We are there to "referee" between the 2 teams, not to "referee" within" the team. #2 - If it is wrong for a white player to call a black player a N____ then it is wrong for a Black to call another Black the same thing.

Well Mike, I am Black. I am sure because of that reality, I look at this from folks that are not my color. And let us just say, if you were my color (but I am going to take a wild guess that you are not) you could see it different from me. But considering that music, culture and everyday practices with many African-Americans, this word is used often. Now I do not agree with the usage, but I understand it's history and would rather address it with the player, rather than flagging it. And to me it is not nearly the same thing as someone outside of that race using the word. Now if you think it is not fair, so what. Life is not fair. And considering that many Black players do not see that many African-American officials, I will handle this is a way that I see best. No different than if I am in a circle of friends and this would is used.

Originally posted by TXMike

If 2 black teams are playing and 1 Black on 1 team calls another Black on the other team a N____, are you going to flag?

No automatically. And probably not at all. But I would address it with the player that used it.

Originally posted by TXMike

And what if they are Hispanic kids and speaking in Spanish? How are you going to know what to flag then?

If they say something I understand. But I do not speak spanish and I am not going to try to make it my business to try to understand while the game is going on. If opponents are talking to each other, if I can I will say, "speak English Gentleman, if you do not want me to think you are using the wrong words." Not much else I can do outside of that. Now if we have a Spanish speaking official, he might help our crew understand those words and their context better. But that is not the case, so unless I have personal knowledge of words, I am not going to just flag something because "I think" it might sound bad. But even when I do not know what is being said (English or Spanish) I will let the players know I am there so whatever is said will stop ASAP. Because in Football, there is a lot of trash talking that you do not always hear. So I look for body language, volume and context.

One last thing. Being an Black person I do not advocate the usage of the "N" word at all. I do not use it in my daily life and have not for a very long time. But when I was the age of many of these kids, I just might have used this word around other Black people or folks my age. But I am the son of a Ph.D that was the first African-American Women to head a Department at my Alma Mater and that Department was The African-American Studies Program, I grew up around racial issues and dealing with during my education. My Mom has a Ph.D in Sociology, so we still talk about these issues and I have read many things about race from many authors that the average person, let alone
Black person has read on this issue. And my college minor was African-American Studies. Now what does this have to do with this issue, it affects the way I look at in and how I would handle this in life and on a court or field. And if I were to hear this word on the street or by someone close to me, I would address it differently depending on who used it and where we were at. If I am in a "professional" setting (like a sporting event) I am not going to scold the individual for saying it, I will pull them aside and tell them, "this is not appropriate here." And I have learned that my word means different things to kids that look like me. And because of that fact, I will use that to my advantage when appropriate. This has always worked for me, so I interact (and they do as well) with players that are my color much differently than players who are not. Just the way it is.

Peace