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chapmaja Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:03am

Rules Question
 
What is your call on this play (NFHS rules). The play starts with 6.9 seconds left in the game, with BBR (black uniforms) trying to come back for the win.

DLS vs. BBR 9-21-13 - YouTube

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/1vsUxSDKm1M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Personally I think there is intentional grounding on the play, and the clock should stop with approximately 2.5 seconds left for the incomplete pass (which is grounding).

The question is when does the clock restart (snap or ready for play) and and where should the ball be spotted for the next play.

The game ended with BBR getting a last second TD to win the game 26-24.

maven Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:00pm

Looks like IGR to me, even though there was an eligible receiver nearby. The presence of an eligible does not automatically rule out IGR.

As with any incomplete forward pass, legal or illegal, the clock will start on the snap after penalty enforcement. 3-4-3e

BktBallRef Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by maven (Post 905702)
Looks like IGR to me, even though there was an eligible receiver nearby. The presence of an eligible does not automatically rule out IGR.

As with any incomplete forward pass, legal or illegal, the clock will start on the snap after penalty enforcement. 3-4-3e

Couple of things.

1- There are NO eligible receivers anywhere near the pass. There are only 5 offensive linemen. As you said it really makes no difference. This should have been IG.

2- If the ball is intentionally grounded to stop the clock, the referee should start the clock on the ready for play whistle. (3-4-6)

asdf Sun Sep 22, 2013 01:06pm

An easy IG call.

5 receivers down field, 5 linemen, 1 QB

Clock starts on the ready

chapmaja Sun Sep 22, 2013 01:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf (Post 905706)
An easy IG call.

5 receivers down field, 5 linemen, 1 QB

Clock starts on the ready

Ok, I think we can all agree it should have been IG. The next question comes from the opposing team coming on the field to celebrate what they think is the end of the game. The officials has wait until the field is clear before signally ready for play.

Now, what about the penalty for the IG. Supposedly the officials marked the ball at the 40 yard line, and Brother Rice scored the TD on a game ending hail mary.

Did they get the spot correct?

ump33 Sun Sep 22, 2013 02:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by chapmaja (Post 905707)
Ok, I think we can all agree it should have been IG. The next question comes from the opposing team coming on the field to celebrate what they think is the end of the game. The officials has wait until the field is clear before signally ready for play.

Now, what about the penalty for the IG. Supposedly the officials marked the ball at the 40 yard line, and Brother Rice scored the TD on a game ending hail mary.

Did they get the spot correct?

Illegal Pass is a Running Play and enforcement is from the End of the Run with Loss of Down ... Looks like it was 2nd & 10+ at the 35 and the run ended at the 43 yard line. Next down should be 3 & 24ish from the 48.
- No foul on B for coming onto the field to celebrate ... looks like they thought the game was over perhaps the clock hit 0:00 because R did not signal Incomplete Pass. Notice how A's team bench appears to be pointing at the clock.
- I would go with clock on the snap because I believe the QB was trying avoid a loss rather than to conserve time.

asdf Sun Sep 22, 2013 02:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ump33 (Post 905711)
Illegal Pass is a Running Play and enforcement is from the End of the Run with Loss of Down ... Looks like it was 2nd & 10+ at the 35 and the run ended at the 43 yard line. Next down should be 3 & 24ish from the 48.
- No foul on B for coming onto the field to celebrate ... looks like they thought the game was over perhaps the clock hit 0:00 because R did not signal Incomplete Pass. Notice how A's team bench appears to be pointing at the clock.
- I would go with clock on the snap because I believe the QB was trying avoid a loss rather than to conserve time.

If he gets sacked, the clock continues to run and the game is over. He's trying to conserve time.

Rich Sun Sep 22, 2013 04:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf (Post 905712)
If he gets sacked, the clock continues to run and the game is over. He's trying to conserve time.

I agree.

BktBallRef Sun Sep 22, 2013 06:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf (Post 905712)
If he gets sacked, the clock continues to run and the game is over. He's trying to conserve time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 905719)
I agree.

Make that 3!

maven Sun Sep 22, 2013 08:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 905704)
If the ball is intentionally grounded to stop the clock, the referee should start the clock on the ready for play whistle. (3-4-6)

Right you are. Thanks for the reminder. :)

bigjohn Sun Sep 22, 2013 08:43pm

Why didn't the white hat throw a flag if it was obviously IG?

JRutledge Sun Sep 22, 2013 09:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn (Post 905733)
Why didn't the white hat throw a flag if it was obviously IG?

Because we all have different judgments. And there is a reason some officials get opportunities and others do not. This looked pretty obvious to me and would have been an easy sells as far as I am concerned.

Peace

asdf Sun Sep 22, 2013 09:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn (Post 905733)
Why didn't the white hat throw a flag if it was obviously IG?

Because he apparently made a mistake in identifying a lineman as an eligible receiver.....

I also saw a clip of the touchdown pass that won the game. It looks like a receiver was covered up and advance down field at the snap.

bisonlj Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ump33 (Post 905711)
Illegal Pass is a Running Play and enforcement is from the End of the Run with Loss of Down ... Looks like it was 2nd & 10+ at the 35 and the run ended at the 43 yard line. Next down should be 3 & 24ish from the 48.
- No foul on B for coming onto the field to celebrate ... looks like they thought the game was over perhaps the clock hit 0:00 because R did not signal Incomplete Pass. Notice how A's team bench appears to be pointing at the clock.
- I would go with clock on the snap because I believe the QB was trying avoid a loss rather than to conserve time.

A very good philosophy to use is when time is short in a half and a QB intentionally grounds the ball, he's a lot more worried about time than yardage. If there are 2 minutes or less remaining and you have IG, start on the RFP. He's trying to illegally conserve time.

JRutledge Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf (Post 905737)
Because he apparently made a mistake in identifying a lineman as an eligible receiver.....

I also saw a clip of the touchdown pass that won the game. It looks like a receiver was covered up and advance down field at the snap.

And he should be getting help from his wings in this case. I can see him thinking there is a reciever in the area, but his wing should have told no one was around. After all this call is not always made immediately.

Peace


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