Out of bounds mechanics
 

I am a new official and have had trouble with this mechanic. I have asked many in my association, and have had almost as many different interpretations of how to signal and if I stop or wind the clock. (When I ask about first down or others, I am asking about if he has obviously crossed the first down threshold or was tackled/pushed out of bounds before reaching it. I hope you can provide the mechanics of both situations in your answers).

1. If the runner is initially down inbounds very close to the line and winds up out of bounds , and I deem his forward motion was NOT stopped before he was down, what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)?

2. If the runner is forced out of bounds before he is down or runs out on his own, what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)?

3. If I deem the runners forward momentum has stopped BEFORE he is out of bounds (I.E. he has stopped moving forward and is pushed backwards out of bounds), what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)? I think I have this one....wouldn't you wind the clock then stop it because he went out of bounds?

I have been told by some (for example on the last question) NOT to stop the clock because he was stopped in bounds, that I SHOULD stop the clock because he was stopped inbounds but went out, and still others have told me toward the end of the game, just let the clock run so "We can all go home"!! That is why I'm so confused....many different answers to the same questions....please help.


I do apologize that this is so long and wordy, but I really want to get it right....the kids deserve it. If any veteran officials want to add me as a "friend" and take me under their wing, I sure would appreciate it. Been doing baseball for over 30 years, so I know I can learn this....just want to do it right!!

God bless....

Paul

1. You answered your own question. You said he was down before going out of bounds. Wind the clock, then stop the clock if it is a first down. Clock will start on ready for play .

2. Simply just stop the clock.

3. If forward progress was stopped prior to going out of bounds, wind the clock, then stop for a first down. Going out of bounds here is irrelevant, since you deemed forward progress was stopped inbounds. Clock will start on ready for play.

Thanks OKREF....
 

I sure appreciate your help. If I may, I'd like to get some clarification on your replies:

1. In question one, you answered since he was out of bounds, I simply wind the clock, then stop it if he has a first down....if he DOESN'T, do I simply wind the clock? I guess where I'm having my problem is thinking since someone is out of bounds, the clock should stop every time??

2. I'm guessing in question two, I would just stop the clock and let the white hat know he was stopped in bounds?

3. In your answer for three, what do I do if it is NOT a first down?

As I said, I know these might be "easy" questions, but I have received so many different answers, I'm just confused. Once again, my main thing is when do I stop the clock and when do I wind it? I always thought if he is out of bounds, I would ALWAYS stop the clock, even for a few seconds as the player(s) are not in the field of play.

Thanks buddy for all your help....be patient, I'm trying lol.

Paul

1. You have him down inbounds...wind the clock to communicate this to your crew and coaches (at least the ones paying attention). If he isn't past the line to gain, no other signal is needed. If it is a first down, follow the winding signal by stopping the clock. This signifies that the clock is stopped only for the first down and will roll again on the RFP. You will also want to verbally (or otherwise, discuss during pregame) explain this to the R as he is preparing to blow the RFP.

2. You have him out of bounds...simply stop the clock. The clock will not start until the snap, first down or not.

3. If you have ruled his forward progress to be down inbounds, same as #1.

The "wind then stop" mechanic was removed from the NFHS Officials Manual prior to last season. The proper mechanic now is:

Stop the clock if:

(1) The runner is inbounds and it's a first down
(2) The runner is out of bounds

Communicate the clock status to the referee and the rest of the crew using signals the crew has agreed to beforehand.

Run the clock if it's not a first down and:

(1) The runner was tackled inbounds or
(2) The runner's progress was stopped inbounds

The wind then stop was eliminated because of the delay between the wind and the stop. Stop the clock, tell the R and the rest of the crew the clock is live on the RFP.

Keep in mind that these things are *all* local. If you're instructed to wind and then stop in your area, do it. It's not the book mechanic anymore, though.

This is what we're doing this year. We have signals to give the R from the wing, but they do not include winding the clock before stopping it.

No more double signals!!!!

If he's out of bounds OR if it's a first down - stop the clock.
If he's in bounds and it's not a first down - do nothing.

That might lead to some of the confusion Rich experienced and described in his other post -- the ECO is not sure whether the R will be starting the clock on the RFP so doesn't bother to look for the signal -- especially if the ECO is not aware of the mechanics change.

That is why you have a conversation with the ECO before the game. It is the expected standard to talk to them to not only find out what they know, but to explain rules and situations that might apply. And even with the mechanics change, people still wind the clock then stop it. I actually thought this was a silly change as you are giving information to your crew as much as the clock guy.

Peace

We should be talking with him beforehand... but just as in officiating any other sport - the possibility that someone else might not do their job correctly is not a good reason for us to do our jobs incorrectly.

I think it's a good change. If the ECO turns away from the wing when he winds, then what?

If there's little time in the game and the "wind, then stop" results in a delay of stopping the clock for an extra second or two, then what?

I'm really working with my wings to eliminate the extra mechanic -- I'm the one that starts the clock anyway, so why is it needed if they're communicating with us? Our guys will kill the clock and then immediately signal to me and the crew that we're winding on the RFP. Really, this makes the most sense as a mechanic -- we stop the clock and THEN tell everyone that it will wind at the RFP.

We don't wind the clock if it is a first down. We tell the ECO to simply stop or start on our signals. If it is near the sideline and not a first down we may wind it to indicate he is not out of bounds. Personal preference here.

Slight quibble. If he's down in bounds and it is close to the sideline, wind it.

My main problem is that if you have a close play near the sideline, you should wind the clock no matter what unless you clearly know this is a first down by many yards. Now you have added another thought process to if it is or is not a first down if it is close.

I guess I do not see the big deal why it would be considered an "extra mechanic" when you are just officiating the play and giving what you have called. I can see coaches not knowing the clock is going to run on the RFP and have had them already be surprised when a player was not out of bounds. After all this change was for the coaches, not from the officials.

Peace

From the perspective of a clock operator, the "wind" signal given by field officials, on any play close to a sideline, removes any element of doubt as to what has happened. That confirmation may be more helpful on plays at the near sideline, rather than far sideline, because so much of the actual sideline is blocked from sight on the near sideline. The far sideline can swallow up a wing official due to the congestion in front of the team area.

It is extremely helpful, for the "inside" field officials (R & U) to pick up and relay those wind signals because the sideline congestion often blocks, or delays, observing the wing officials. (Despite the many significant benefits gained by changing to black pants for officials, picking officials up, vizually, on a crowed sideline, is more difficult than it was when white knickers were worn).

"Inside" officials (R & U) can provide a similar benefit echoing incomplete (or stop the clock) signals on sideline passes, for the same congestion reasons.

Perhaps habit, but the wind signal, followed by stop the clock, on 1st downs near a sideline, when the play ends in bounds, despite recent suggestions, are extremely helpful in alerting the clock operator of the circumstance and subsequently finding and focusing on the Referee, so that the subsequent instruction to start the clock, on the RFP, being anticipated, will be responded to promptly.

When the combination of both signals is executed properly, there should be NO time lost. The primary purpose of any signal, should be to convey pertinent, relevant information to where it is needed.

The HL mirrors our stop the clock mechanic on a first down.

Our LJ makes 100% of the line-to-gain decisions. If he stops the clock on a play that ends inbounds, it's a first down OR the chains are coming out. My only signal as the R is the first down, ball spotted, wind clock. Or I bring the chains out. Even *I* don't mirror the stop the clock as the R -- it's completely unnecessary -- I've already looked to make sure the clock stopped.

I've seen crews work where every official seems to mirror everything. I think that's completely unnecessary. YMMV.

If the clock fails to stop on a play where the LJ is the covering official and the ECO doesn't see the signal, I'll put the time back on the clock. I can't remember the last time that happened. Most of the film we get back is from the press box -- and our LJ is very, very visible from that height.

[QUOTE=Rich;904566]
I've seen crews work where every official seems to mirror everything. I think that's completely unnecessary. YMMV.[QUOTE]

Our state requires that all officials mirror the "stop-the-clock" signal for the reasons that ajmc gave.

The mechanics folk seem to flip-flop on this one. I remember a state clinic I attended years ago where they emphasized absolutely no mirroring of signals (especially TDs). This applied even to stopping the clock. Then, just a couple of years later, some officials returned from a state clinic pointing out that all officals--except the covering official--are to mirror stop the clock signals. And other officials were to stop the clock when the covering official signaled an incomplete pass. Then against, just a few years later, no mirroring of signals. At one point, there was even a mechanic to not have other officials stop the clock on an incomplete pass (since the incomplete signal itself was sufficient).

For my part, I think the problem is poor mechanics and lack of consistency. The evaluators see several crews doing something poorly or inconsistently, or several different crews doing things differently, so then they come out with some new mechanics to try and get things into shape. Then it oscillates between new mechanics, crews not well trained or practiced, then back to new mechanics.

Shrug.

On my crew we all signal with a stop clock motion if a first down is made and obvious. If we have a first and 10 and they gain 30 yards, we give the signal. Only the LJ makes the decision when it is close.

And as BJ I will signal stop clock when I know it should be, even if it is an out of bounds play as I have responsibility on the sideline for clean up. I would not say we mirror everything. If I do not see something, I do not make any signal.

And we also do not put time on the clock for something like a first down unless time is critical. But if it is 8:52 on the clock and during a first down with the clock would be running, we are not putting time on the clock if a couple of seconds ran off.

Peace

I'm glad I started this discussion....
 

Hey guys, thanks so much for all the info. I'm glad I could open what is turning out to be an important discussion. The only other question I have (what is still confusing me):

If the player is tackled INBOUNDS very close to the sideline and he was either going forward or sideways (IOW his forward momentum was not stopped), after he was down the play carried him out of bounds, what would I signal? Let's say for the sake of argument his knee hit the ground when he was obviously inbounds, but in the pile up, he wound up oob?

Thanks again for all your help. You will make me a good official yet lol.

Paul

Your description is confusing. You ask "if he's tackled" but "still moving forward"... if he's still moving forward, he's not tackled.

To try to answer what I think you're asking ... if the official rules his forward motion to be ended, it is at that spot that the play ends... in bounds. If the official rules he went out of bounds before his forward movement had stopped, he's out of bounds.

There's no in-between case.

(And if his knee hit in bounds, the play ended in bounds).

No need to signal anything regarding the clock. If anything, you can signal by winding the clock.