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LeRoy Sat Aug 31, 2013 05:30pm

PAT Holder
 
Can a PAT holder with a good snap jump up and run? or is he down because of his knee being on the ground. I was thinking there was an exception for him?

bigjohn Sat Aug 31, 2013 06:30pm

There is an exception.

HLin NC Sat Aug 31, 2013 06:31pm

You are looking for 4-2-2a Exception 1.

Adam Sat Aug 31, 2013 08:40pm

<s>Doesn't the exception only apply if the kick is attempted? If he gets up, he has to get his knee up before he catches the snap. Right?</s>

Disregard. I was wrong.

Robert Goodman Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 904009)
Doesn't the exception only apply if the kick is attempted? If he gets up, he has to get his knee up before he catches the snap. Right?

Wrong on both.

In fact it would be hard to figure a situation where the kick is attempted and he's still holding the ball! You mean the kicker wiffed? Actually if the kicker did wiff, then there'd no longer be anyone in position to kick the ball, so if he were still holding the ball and had a knee down, it would be dead.

Adam Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 904012)
Wrong on both.

In fact it would be hard to figure a situation where the kick is attempted and he's still holding the ball! You mean the kicker wiffed? Actually if the kicker did wiff, then there'd no longer be anyone in position to kick the ball, so if he were still holding the ball and had a knee down, it would be dead.

<S>I wasn't clear. If the holder catches the snap on his knee and then stands up for a fake, isn't the ball dead?</S>

Never mind. Just pulled the book out of my car. Not sure where I got that misinterpretation.

HLin NC Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:27pm

Quote:

Doesn't the exception only apply if the kick is attempted? If he gets up, he has to get his knee up before he catches the snap. Right?
Wrong, he must rise to advance, pass, or hand the ball.

Robert Goodman Sun Sep 01, 2013 01:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLin NC (Post 904019)
Wrong, he must rise to advance, pass, or hand the ball.

It's only in Fed that he has to rise before handing, passing, or kicking the ball. NFL & CFL might even allow crawling to advance it; not sure whether their prohibitions on crawling apply to players who weren't already down.

LeRoy Mon Sep 02, 2013 01:20pm

Found it
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LeRoy (Post 904002)
Can a PAT holder with a good snap jump up and run? or is he down because of his knee being on the ground. I was thinking there was an exception for him?

4.2.2

ART. 2 . . . The ball becomes dead and the down is ended:
a. When a runner goes out of bounds, is held so his forward progress is
stopped or allows any part of his person other than hand or foot to touch
the ground.
EXCEPTIONS:
1. The ball remains live if, at the snap, a place-kick holder with his knee(s) on the ground and with a teammate in kicking position catches or recovers the snap while his knee(s) is on the ground and places the ball for a kick, or if he rises to advance, hand, kick or pass; or
2. The ball remains live if, at the snap, a place-kick holder with his knee(s) on the ground and with a teammate in kicking position rises and catches or recovers an errant snap and immediately returns his knee(s) to the ground and places the ball for a kick or again rises to advance, hand, kick or pass.

NOTE: The ball becomes dead if the place-kick holder muffs the snap or fumbles and recovers after his knees have been off the ground, and he then touches the ground with other than hand or foot while in possession of the ball.

Texas Aggie Mon Sep 02, 2013 06:12pm

Quote:

it would be hard to figure a situation where the kick is attempted and he's still holding the ball!
Never watched Charlie Brown?

ajmc Mon Sep 02, 2013 07:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 904012)
Wrong on both.

In fact it would be hard to figure a situation where the kick is attempted and he's still holding the ball! You mean the kicker wiffed? Actually if the kicker did wiff, then there'd no longer be anyone in position to kick the ball, so if he were still holding the ball and had a knee down, it would be dead.

I beg to differ, Robert. As you may note from the quoting of 4.2.2 and the Exception above, the requirement for "with a teammate in kicking position" relates to, "The ball remains live if, at the snap.

A teammate in a kicking position, at the snap, who fakes (or otherwise "wiffs" a kick), does NOT kill the ball or prevent the holder who, "rises to advance, hand, kick or pass" from doing so.


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