Horse-Collar Tackle
Fed
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Taking it one iteration further, what do we have if the initial grab over the collar is after the runner clearly crosses the sideline? Do we still assess this as a live-ball foul or do we then have a dead-ball personal foul for a late hit/unnecessary roughness? The argument against calling this a live ball foul is that once the runner is clearly across the sideline, they are no longer a runner. Just wanted to gather some thoughts -Josh |
That issue got addressed a year or two after the horse collar tackle rule was imposed. Treat it as a live ball foul.
If you'll enter "horse collar" in the "Search This Forum" tab on the main page, you will probably find ample old discussion about it. 2012 Case Book 9.4.3 SITUATION O: A1 is carrying the ball when B1 grabs him by the back or side of the collar of the shoulder pads (or jersey). A1 then: (a) fumbles the ball and is subsequently brought to the ground by B1; (b) crosses the goal line to score a touchdown and is then brought down by B1; or (c) crosses the sideline and is then brought down by B1. RULING: In (a), (b) and (c), a horse-collar foul should be called. |
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-Josh |
I believe you call it when the action started. Them no longer being a runner is really not relevant anymore if you think of it. Because one of the examples involves a fumble, which would eliminate the possibility of the player being a runner. I think I would call this a live ball if the action started during a live ball and ended after it is technically dead. But I think an argument can be made you call it when the tackle is completed.
Peace |
If he was well out of bounds, then you would have a DBPF. I wouldn't split hairs if its close though.
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-Josh |
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Does the runner have to actually be brought to the ground to classify as a horse collar?
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k. Grab the inside back or side collar of the shoulder pads or jersey of the runner and subsequently pull (backward or sideward) that opponent to the ground (Horse-collar), even if possession is lost. The horse-collar foul is enforced as a live-ball foul.
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REPLY: But remember that if he is grabbed clearly after he's crossed the sideline and then brought to the ground, it can't be a 'horse collar tackle.' You're perfectly justified in calling it a DBPF, but it can't be a horse collar since by definition a HCT is committed against a "runner" and once he crosses the sideline he's no longer a runner.
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Damn those Rule 2 details. NF 2-32-13, "A runner is a player who is in possession of a LIVE ball or is simulating possession of a LIVE ball."
NF: 2-41-5, "The out-of bounds Spot is where the ball becomes DEAD because of going out-of bounds, as in 4-3-1, 2, 3. |
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