EJ in the Superbowl
 

29 shoves an official and they keep him in the game. Unreal.

Ejection on shoves? Really?

Peace

There's a lot of emotion in the game. Much pushing and shoving. The officials are letting em play.

For shoving an official? Yes, really.

You shove an official, you're EJ'd in my game.

What sports do you get to shove an official?

I don't care what game it is...shove an official, you're done for the day.

Not sure I saw the situation you are talking about, but I agree. But I also consider what happens in the middle of pushing matches to be very different as well. And obviously so did the officials working the game. And the last time I checked, none of us here are at that level so it really does not matter what we do in our games.

Peace

Except that's what this forum is about. What happens in our games and in games that we see. So it matters quite a bit.

My comments are not about the nature of the forum. I get why we discuss these things, but someone with a lot more experience at that level does not make that call or did not see it the way you did and there you go. Just like I am sure some wanted a foul on the 4th down play and there was one not called.

Peace

Here is the play. It wasn't in the middle of a scrum, he knew what he was doing.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18dj...f/original.gif

I have no problem with that as he knows what was said and how his reaction took place. These things do not get called in a bubble.

Peace

29's behavior is acceptable?

You are missing the point. This is why at the levels most of us likely work, you do not go in at all trying to put your hands on officials. Because people are getting pushed and they push whomever is in their face. My point is the officials knows better than you or me if the guy was just pushing guys away from him and accidentally pushed the official. High levels have different standards and certainly have different standards of contact or these situations than we would at the HS level. That is just a fact.

Peace

Rut -

You nailed this on the head..

At that level it is like the WWE......

Refs know it, unless player goes after official no ejections especially in SB

I am not saying that the official was right or wrong. Just saying that he has the bigger picture along with previous training and philosophy in the league about what is acceptable or not. And without knowing what words came out of the player's mouth or what other interaction that player had with the opponent, then we have no idea why this guy was not ejected. And the official did make contact with about 3 players which is certainly something we might not be doing at the HS level for sure. I am sure the league will have some opinion about this and will tell the staff if this guy should have been considered for an ejection or not. Or a fine will come down on the player as well.

Peace

What about the example this shows thousands (minimum) of youth players, who see this happen and no penalty assessed? I agree about the officials knowing what is incidental and what is intentional, but players have been ejected for far less contact. Despite what I think about lack of ejection, I expect a fine to be forthcoming.

The NFL, and other professional leagues, can't be fully concerned about what some youth player might do in their game. There's a lot of trash talking and gesturing and gamesmanship and communication/questing of officials that is allowed at the professional level that isn't allowed in the amateur level...so that reasoning for whether a call should be made or not means absolutely nothing to me, as far as what happens at a higher level.

As to the play in question, I wouldn't expect an ejection in an NFL game...a flag at most, but no ejection.

Then those kids are not too bright. These guys are getting paid, someone at their level is not getting paid to play. Big difference.

Peace

I guess the problem is that the America as a whole is too dumb to filter the two.

This crap filters down to the youth level b/c many people think they're coaching in the NFL in 6U. It certainly is not the officials' faults at the NFL level for the conduct of idiot youth coaches.

Think of the children (wringing hands)!

Did you really just ask that? RUFK? You know better - and you would eject 100% of the time, in every sport you do, if you were shoved by a player.

Heck no. Easy ejection every single time.

The same apologists on here would be supporting an EJ had that been the result as well.

In my opinion, he should've been ejected.

In the opinion of others on here it was "great officiating"

God bless America where everybody on the Internet gets his own opinion. -Abraham Lincoln

If it was an automatic and you all know so much, why was there no ejection? ;)

After all, this is about your games right?

Peace

Nobody's saying that you can't stick up for your buddies. I just disagree that's all. I'm over it.

In baseball, there are times in post season where I haven't ejected when I probably would have in the regular season. Trust me, I get it. I guess my main point is that had he ejected him, nobody on here would've said that the guy didn't deserved to get sent to the showers.

How are they my buddies? There was no ejection and you and others are comparing things to pro sports that have no significants. I have seen several fights in pro sports and officials handle those situations drastically differently than they do in amateur sports. So explain why was there absolutely no ejection that took place? I is not about disagreement, just answer why this was handled differently?

Peace

With all due respect, who cares about baseball in this discussion? This is not baseball as the rules for fights are totally different than what happens in an NFL game. Players can leave the bullpen when a fight takes place. Players in the NFL cannot leave the bench. That is why you see a basic pushing and shoving match during this sitaution and you saw hardly anyone even come to the field that was on the sideline. And in baseball they choose not to eject people at the clip they do in the post season. And once again, who said anything about what someone deserves?

Peace

I think the only reason there wasn't an EJ here is that it was the Super Bowl. There have been other instances just like this where a player shoves an official out of the way and gets tossed, Justin Smith from the 49ers for one (and he deserved it).

Any game of mine and he is gone, and yes Rut, I know I'm not calling in the Super Bowl. :)

And there have been other instances where similar contact did not result in an ejection. This was not a situation where individuals were complaining just about a call, this was a situation where players were locked together. What someone deserves is not the same at all levels. If that was the case then when NFL shows a coach go crazy on the sidelines then they would be ejected as they are in HS football. And in college and certainly the NFL the usage of language is very different and what is acceptable is considered very different. Let us not act like this is a totally new concept we are discussing here.

Peace

Football is a game involving extreme personal contact between players age 6 through 60. Would it make any sense to apply basic rules exactly the same across all the various levels?

The majority of disqualifications I've seen, with the exception of a deliberate "cheap shot" are not produced by that initial action, but are the result of subsequent actions or reactions or built upon previous actions or reactions.

AJ - are you aware we are talking about a player putting two hands on an official and shoving him away?

I think my baseball analogy in this situation is relevant to the nature of the discussion we're having here because game management is game management.

Only in the WWF (World Wrestling Federation) have I seen an official shoved in that manner and get away with it. Obviously the official chose to keep Mr. #29 in the game. That is his right as the official. I happened to disagree with his judgment which by the likes of what I'm reading on here means that I should keep my aspirations to move up on the baseball diamond and not on the football field which I am okay with.

I will stick to my guns though and say that if he had ejected him, all of you would be talking about what a great "textbook" EJ that was.

OK if you think that is relevant when there are so many side issues to what baseball does in general, be my guest. I am just stating that pro ball overall is very different than what those do at the HS and college ranks for a reason. And what you call "textbook" is going to vary by level and even sometimes conference a person is working. I am not disagreeing with your opinion from the HS level, but that is a vary narrow way to look at what happens in the pros.

Peace

I know you're prone to stick with your opinion no matter what, but I must say I've never seen you this far out on a limb before. You keep relying on the "it's different in the pros" as if no one here has ever watched a game, but you've watched and officiated them all.

Truly, this argument is absurd. Show me (video or an article) a SINGLE instance of a player getting away with a 2-hand shove on an official without an ejection, (just ONE!!!) and there might be some credibility to your opinion here. I don't believe one exists. I KNOW I've seen ejections for FAR less player-official contact in the NFL, and yes, in the playoffs. Burden of proof is in your corner, Jeff... and your tried and true, "I don't have to convince you, I know I'm right" argument tactics won't work here.

I did not realize I must agree with you in order to have a discussion on this or any other topic. Thanks for letting me know that someone states something here I must completely change my mind and invalidate my personal experience, what I have witnessed and what I have been directly involved in or what I have heard individuals that actualy work those levels have to say.

Once again I did not say that there was not a different standard at the levels you and I would work. But I do know of very different standards as to what would lead to an ejection if you change the circumstances. And maybe I have not seen a 2 handed push like that took place here, but I have seen individuals that would be ejected for stuff in my game, not have the same requirement in games I watch on TV. And once again, I was taught to not contact players the way these officials did in this situation for reasons of liablity and helping to escalate a conflict. That is OK with the NFL because they are all grown and any action is not under the same jurisdiction of liablity as everyone works for the same company. Players, officials and coaches are subjected to the overall organization and employees, while what we do are independent contractors working for a singular fee in our games. And all I am disagreeing with here is it is not an "automatic" as you state or it would have resulted in an ejection. Unless you are prevy to some communications with the NFL and their staff, you have little idea what might be discussed as other things have a philsophy. I know there is a standard or opinion about how holding is called and that standard does not necessarily come down to what we have been instructed at the HS level.

Sorry that what I say seems to absolutely offend you as you tend to troll around looking to make pot shots at me because I tend to take a more objective position then always assuming because I work HS and college that I know what NFL guys should be doing. It is much more complicated than that and once again, if it was a slam dunk ejection, why did the officials keep this player in the game? It is a simple question to answer. Better yet, why was their only offsetting penalties when I can tell you in my games there likely would have been more penalties involved with the multiple problems going on in that pushing match. Forget just what happen with the officials, what about all the players that continued without stopping? I do not work that level but I would assume there is some philosophy as to how those situations are to be handled. Was it handled properly at that level? I really do not know the answer. I just know that no one was ejected even with a "push" to an official. And having watched recent fights in the NBA and MLB, it is clear the officials are given different instructions how they put their hands on players to stop brawls.

Peace

I hate to admit I somewhat agree with JRut's posts here. I won't be as argumentative. I can't remember any time I've seen a player ejected for contacting an official in the NFL. I'm sure I've seen it but I don't remember the circumstance. I do know there was a play earlier where Cam Newton bumped into an official (think it was Boger too) and he was not ejected.

My guess is contacting an official in the NFL has a threshold that results in ejection. This may or may not have reached that level but none of us know. JRut isn't saying he wouldn't eject at the levels he works. He's just saying none of us know if the ejection should have happened in this situation. We may eventually hear something from the league.

It probably doesn't meet the exact requirement laid out, but there was a pretty high profile shove/bump earlier this year involving Cam Newton and Jerome Boger that did not result in an ejection. Cam Newton gets chippy with Oakland Raiders, officials - NFL Videos Personally, I think the Newton clip was worse because there was clear intent.

You can't really judge intent in the middle of a melee. I'm not going to dig through 100s of hours of clips on someone else's behalf to find examples of officials getting pushed in the middle of skirmishes. I know I've seen it at the NFL level, though. The standard is simply, different.

Brandon Stokely ejected

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/KUfbQIBpPV4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This was an ejection that happened that did not involve a shove.

Peace

Obviously given the Stokely ejection, it seems to be up to the individual official's tolerance level.

Here is one involving NO contact.

DeAngelo Hall goes nuts, gets ejected - YouTube

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/6VFW2V_xv18" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I can agree with this.

And I said that along time ago. Just sayin.

Peace

You win. I lose.

What did I win?

Peace

Sometimes it's in the way it's said. Emotion and attitude don't always come across accurately online.

I'm a Man !!!!!!!
 

If Mike Gundy (ftball coach at Ok. St) was discussing this he would say, "Push

Me!!!!!, cause I'M A MAN!!!!!!" :):):):)

Okay, what about the tackle from the Browns that beaned by a flag that went through his face mask causing him to lose the eyesight in on eye. When the official that threw the flag walked over to check on him he pushed the official away. Boom............ejection.

The WWF is the World Wildlife Foundation.

Sports Junkies from DC interviewed Cary Williams this morning. Right or wrong, his take:

Obviously, it was a "chippy" game. It was a "heat of the moment" thing after his helmet was "ripped off." Said, he didn't really see the ref, he just got up and pushed whomever was in front of him.....and the ref was there. He said, the ref knew he was not doing it on purpose or to hurt him and made the right "no call." Emotions got the best of him.

When asked if he expected to be fined, he said he hadn't heard from the league yet......

What does that have to do with this case? Nothing, because the situation was not a scrum or pushing match with several opponents and officials in the middle trying to separate them.

Peace

"The Internet - Where everybody gets to decide their own acronyms"

-Ben Franklin

I'm willing to bet the official wasn't exactly sure where the hit came from as well. He knows he was contacted but he was getting into a scrum and guys are getting pushed everywhere.

Question. If you flag this guy (which should have occurred) do you have to throw him out? If the official deemed that he didn t realize he was shoving an official, he should be able to flag him without tossing him. If ejection is mandatory, maybe the official passed on it. Anyone know?