NFHS question
 

In a game Friday night, the R had roughing the passer on Team B, but the pass was tipped behind the line (screen pass) also by Team B. Team B wanted the roughing taken away because the ball was tipped. The R made the initial call, talked to the Team B coach, was going to wave it off then decided to still enforce it. looked like a clown show. My question is does a tipped ball cancel out roughing the passer?

No.

Does the pass being tipped make the passer no longer a passer? No. He's still a passer (as long has he's behind the neutral zone). Sounds like Team B is confusing the fact that a tipped pass affects PI and not RTP.

The kicker is one official (Who is also a WH but was head linesman this game) was trying to tell the WH that he threw the ball so he no longer is a passer. I was amazed that he said that.

And I agree Radio, this wasn't PI, it was roughing.

Well that explains how Jason's H came to the conclusion he did: he misinterpreted this definition as saying that the passer is such until the passing ends.

I still had it as roughing, same as the WH. It was when the other official came in and said that the ball was tipped so roughing is no longer in question is when any doubt crept in. I was sure we enforced it correctly, just wanted some feedback.

That's fine, and I'm glad to know you handled it correctly.

I was simply commenting on this other official: when telling someone he's wrong, I always try to start with a win for him. For instance: "You know, Bob, you're right: when B tips the ball, you can't have PI. But I don't think that provision applies to RTP. The passer is still protected."

I was thinking something similar about his concern that the passer was no longer a passer after the ball was released. "Bob, you're right, he does cease to be a passer at some point, but I think he has until the pass ends."

Good idea. Thanks.

Maybe he was thinking the pass ends when the ball is tipped?

That is what I was thinking. That is going to be a longer discussion to change that thinking in that moment.

Peace

Was this a Coach-Referee conference?

It was.

Not much longer: "It is still a forward pass until it is caught or becomes dead by rule."

That is if they accept that comment. There are people all the time that insist on things being in a definition and clearly are wrong. So I agree in a perfect world it should click in their mind that is true, but some people are not aware of some basic definitions they will argue points they cannot prove without a rulebook present. And unless you are in Ohio that is not going to happen. :p

Peace

Not trying to be ugly, but why were you looking at the QB?

I did not take this has him actually looking at the QB or passer. I took this has him explaining why he would go with RTP. As this appears to have been a coach-official conference. And depending on the play, he would be looking at the QB rolling to his side and might notice him getting hit and might even notice a tipped ball immediately as well.

Peace

Tipped ball hits the ground and then the "passer" is hit, he is no longer a passer. But you could still have a dead ball PF.

I wasn't. I actually was umpiring this game. The WH asked if the ball was tipped, I told him it was. I was just agreeing that if he had roughing, then the call should stand regardless of the tipped ball.

OK, sorry. I took your post to mean that you *also* thought the hit on the passer was RTP.

Why is an official allowed to play in his own game? Next you'll be telling me the teams had linesmen.

Ok, I'll give you this one... that was funny.

Canadian Ruling
 

CANADIAN RULING:

No.

Nor would it matter if the B player tipping the ball was the same player that was flagged for RTP.