Official "banned" for flagging band
 

Ref banned after silencing Garland middle school band | wfaa.com Dallas - Fort Worth

Ref banned after silencing Garland middle school band

by TERESA WOODARD
WFAA
Posted on October 17, 2012 at 10:00 PM
Updated yesterday at 10:38 PM

GARLAND — The Hudson Middle School band was doing what bands do: Playing for fans in the stands and revving up the players, too.
But a referee on the field wanted quiet.

"He was shushing us," said 13-year-old trombone player Maegen Benavidez.
Band mom Jo Ann Brewer couldn't believe it. "Hudson had the ball, our band started to play... and that's when the ref threw the flag," she said.
The official reportedly told Hudson's band director that the middle school football team would keep being penalized if the band kept playing. He said they were just too loud.

....

The official was ordered to leave? That would be the last time I'd send officials to that school district.

And since when do bands play while the game is actually going on? I know when I was in HS, the band was *not allowed* to play during play.

All the time in Georgia. All the time.

According to the DFOA, they are backing the school. What crap. Glad I left them. The band can't play during live action. Period. That's the NCAA rule (which Texas plays by) and is also in the UIL guidelines. They were warned, and chose to continue breaking the rule.

And the REF is penalized for enforcing the rule? There's no way in hello I'd ever set foot on that school's field again.

When officials throw other officials under the bus, it makes me ill. Again, I've never lived in a state where a band was allowed to play during live action.

Could this official handled things more diplomatically? No clue - I wasn't there. Perhaps he did and the band director ignored him. I've seen many bands where they think the football game is a side activity for the band concert that's taking place at halftime.

It happens all the time here and I find it particularly dreadful. It's as if the football game is interrupting the band review.

A chapter sticking up for the district / school instead of officials. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. :rolleyes:

I better walk away from this thread before my blood pressure spikes.

Rules? Rules?? We don't need no stinkin rules!!

As a former drum major, I can assure you that the football game is merely the pre-concert and post-concert show. :cool:

I'd personally flag any band who takes more than 1:10 to play the anthem.

I'll go along with that. When did the anthem become a dirge?

Sometime after we went to war in Iraq, I was working a Friday night and the PA announcer went over a short list of that school's grads who had deployed. The band then began to play the anthem, which I still believe is the longest version I've ever heard. At the end, I leaned over to the umpire and whispered "I heard those troops we were honoring are already back."

What those bands don't realize is this: If a band has glaring weaknesses (as many HS bands do), playing the anthem slower only emphasizes those weaknesses.

If it were up to me, I'd simply play a recording of Roger Doucet from the 70s. Exactly 1:10 and, to me, the best rendition (even with the French-Canadian accent).

Roger Doucet sings the US and Canadian anthems at Forum de Montreal - May 10, 1979 - YouTube

No such rule in NC.

OHSAA Handbook says this:

12. Bands
A. It shall be the responsibility of the host school’s Athletic Director to notify the visiting
school’s Athletic Director whether the visiting school’s band will be permitted at its
homecoming.
B. The half-time intermission shall be limited to 20-minutes. The clock will start immediately
when both teams and the game officials clear the field. At the conclusion of 20-minutes, a
three-minute warm-up period is required for both teams and will be timed on the game
clock.
C. If the bands of both competing schools are to perform at half-time, no more than 9-
minutes shall be allotted to the host schools band for its performance and no more than 9-
minutes shall be allotted for the visiting schools band performance.
D. A full band is not permitted to play through amplified microphones during the football
game.
E. Bands shall assemble and stay outside the field of play and end zone until the first half
has been completed before coming onto these areas. The same shall be repeated at the
end of the game.

F. The home team’s band shall not be seated behind the visiting team’s restraining area
which is commonly referred to as the 25 to 25 yard lines.
G. Bands shall not play music at football games while the ball is in play, or while signals are
being called by the quarterback. This means that it is not permissible to use either:
1. Drum roll or beat
2. Cymbals clashing
3. Horn sounds, or
4. Any other kind of musical instrument while the play is underway in football.
H. Roving bands shall be allowed to participate at the discretion of the host Athletic Director.
However, such bands shall not perform while the ball is in play or while signals are being
called by the quarterback.
Also, the roving band shall not perform behind the visiting team’s bench area. If a roving
band is found in violation of this agreement, that band shall be suspended from roving the
remainder of that season at any football games.

http://ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/manual.pdf

No rule in our state, either. And it happens in every game I call.

The players don't seem to be bothered by it.

There are hardly any bands in the Vegas valley that are able to distract the players, sadly enough. The directors do a pretty good job of policing themselves. But they're so small I don't think it would affect the action anymore than the PA guy who shouts "It's a REVERSE!" over the loudspeaker.

With a couple of exceptions, there's hardly any CROWDS large enough to be noticed. Sad state of affairs in high school football here.

Doesn't really matter if there are a few states who don't find it problematic that the crowd can use artificial noisemakers to disrupt the opposing teams signals, even though I find that very very odd.

It DOES matter that there is such a rule in Texas, where this game was played.

It DOES matter that an official chose to enforce the rule (after 2 warnings, neither of which were actually required to be given), and is being banned from the district for enforcing a rule.

It DOES matter that the official's organization publicly commented that he was wrong (whether he was or was not ... since when is this ok for junior high officials????)

It DOES matter that the official's organization is not backing their official against this district and allowing the district to determine, in contradiction to what the state has put in writing, which rules to enforce or not enforce.

And every single one of you should be bothered by this.

Agree completely. It would be one thing if it wasn't written down as a rule or if he somehow overstepped his boundries, but he didn't. Heck, if anything, he gave the band director a couple of chances to knock it off. The fact that an official's organization is implicitly allowing a school to ignore written rules by supporting the decision to boot the ref is just plain wrong.

From what I can tell, the official gave the band one warning, basically telling them to cut it out, and then on his way back told the coach - coach kind of ignored him and gave him a "ok, got it" dismissive head nod. The very next series they did it again and he flagged it.

And, as far as "spirit of the rule" goes, they were apparently only playing while they were on defense, and the first outburst was not music, but rather intentionally distracting noise (everyone playing randomly all at once). I didn't ask about the "music/outburst" that drew the flag - whether it was music or not.

I have a couple of emails out to higher-ups up there, but neither has responded. As quickly as one of them usually replies to me, I bet he's been told not to comment on the matter.

I have found that this is more of a cultural thing as to what part of the country or maybe where the game is being played. There are certain schools that do play during play around here and most do not. It usually is not that big of a deal when the band is playing. I do not know that I would flag the band, I would likely get the game management to do something if it was really a problem. Other than that I am sure the official was in the right, but wondering if some other way could have solved this. And if I was on a crew where the partner was asked to leave, I would be leaving too. Officiate the game on your own if that is how you are going to be.

Peace

FWIW, musical instruments are generally not considered to be artificial noisemakers. Artificial noisemakers are air horns, sirens and such. Instruments are natural noise amplifiers.

That being said, if he correctly enforced the rule, I don't see why his association wouldn't support him.

Makes sense. To add to this, though, is that it was a junior high game. Meaning "game management" likely includes a parent running concessions and another parent collecting at the gate.

Incidentally, to add to the noisemaker comment - I am being told the first mess of noise was not music, but WAS just noise - random sound from various instruments -timed to mess up the other team - which is what drew the first "cut it out" from the official.

And this is why I do not want to work these games in the first place. You have no idea what the structure is or who is in charge. And you certainly have very disjointed structure to what takes place. I will pass if you cannot figure out who is in charge and what rules we might be under. I get wanting to work and learn, but at the HS level I know what the rules are and what the standards are. Maybe if officials stop working these games things will change. Oh well, I am so glad I have been around long enough not to have to feel like I have to do these games.

Peace

Here's what I don't understand -

The Hudson Middle School band was doing what bands do: Playing ... Hudson had the ball

Have the coach tell his own band to be quiet.

And this -

After the band left the stadium, the official was ordered to leave, too.

The officials are a team. If one goes, we all go.

So are vuvuzelas.

Figured those were soccer horns walt but I still had to yahoo it! I don't google anything!

Yes, they are annoying but they aren't artificial noisemakers. So, unfortunately, they are allowed to be used at HS soccer matches.

On the upside, they are so annoying almost no one uses them anymore. The year of the World Cup they were at about 75% of my games. This year, I've only heard one.

Proof that natural != good.

So, would you allow them in a HS basketball game? I wouldn't, but the rule is the same, it seems.

I disagree that band instruments aren't artificial noise makers.

Nerd. :p

Kinda the point I was making.

Sorry should I have used <> instead? :p

The basketball rule is "The playing of music/sound effects shall only be permitted during pregame, time-outs, intermission and post-game. The use of artificial noisemakers shall be prohibited."

Using instruments is prohibited in basketball because they produce music (and, technically, a vuvuzeela is a type of trumpet, so it produces "music").

As to instruments being artificial noise makers, when's the last time you saw a trumpet make a sound by itself?

Neither do artificial instruments.

What about bull horn amplifiers (non electric)?

This statement is false. The NCAA rule is as follows:

"Persons subject to the rules, including bands, shall not create any noise that prohibits a team from hearing its signals." (9-2-1-b-5)

It did not say it couldn't play during live action. Drum lines are going all the time, especially in the 4th quarter.

There is nothing in the UIL exceptions on this rule. Where exactly are you getting the information that led you to make this statement?

Um ... this: Persons subject to the rules, including bands, shall not create any noise that prohibits a team from hearing its signals.

If you're reading that to prohibit any music at all, you're reading too much into it.

Does not say "can't play during live action. Period."

I quoted the rule. Did you really miss that? Also, where is the reference to UIL rules that you asserted?

This bothers me tremendously because you, as a Texas official, are incorrectly asserting rule references. I'm not trying to pick a fight, just wanting to know where you are getting your information.

Fair enough, I broad brushed it here too much. And I'm looking for the line on the UIL site that reiterates this (it's not an exception). Haven't found that yet.

Replying to the "music" part above... the band was not playing music the first time the official told them to cut it out. They were blurting random noises as the opposing team was huddled and calling out it's snap count (according to a linesman working this game). Pretty much exactly what this rule is meant to prevent.

The SECOND time - the one that drew a flag - was music, but they'd been told simply not to play while the other team's offense was getting ready. Seems (to me) from what I'm being told that the band guy was pushing things on purpose.

different band sich
 

Not my friday game, but a friends.
Home team band is still on the field at halftime when the crew walks back out to start the 2nd half. Band is still playing when the 3 min warmup starts- actually wont leave when director informed by crew- "He says,"we need to finish the song"....
Visiting team is delayed from entering the field, band finally marches off....15yd unsportsmanlike against home coach.
Home coach tells crew something like "Yea, I know, I know, that band director's been p***ing me off all year"..
I love telling other friend officials that "he flagged the band" just to see their reaction.....