Play

[ChickenOfNC]

A4/10 @ 50.

A21 runs to the B30 where he is tackled. During his run, A21 taunts a B player before being tackled. UC against A21 during a live ball.

I've got A 1/10 @ B45.

Agree/disagree?

[Adam]

What are the other options?

[ChickenOfNC]

Originally Posted by Adam

What are the other options?

Some fellow officials want to go A 4/5 from the B45.

[CT1]

Agree. If he's past the LTG when the play ends (and he was), it's going to be 1st-&-10 after administration of any dead ball (or LBTDB) fouls.

[wisref2]

One of the rules I think needs changing. You consider any deadball fouls by B for achieving the line to gain, but not those by A. So if you have a deadball by B (that gets A past the line to gain) followed by another by A, A still is awarded the first down before enforcing their foul - plus they get it first and 10. The penalties don't match the fouls, in my opinion. Also hard to explain to a coach!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by wisref2

One of the rules I think needs changing. You consider any deadball fouls by B for achieving the line to gain, but not those by A. So if you have a deadball by B (that gets A past the line to gain) followed by another by A, A still is awarded the first down before enforcing their foul - plus they get it first and 10. The penalties don't match the fouls, in my opinion. Also hard to explain to a coach!

I don't think it's that hard at all. It's an LED foul. We're always going to enforce it from the succeeding spot.

[wisref2]

Imagine (as we always end up doing).....

A is tackled at the 30 to make it 2nd and 14. B taunts A. Several second later (obviously not at the same time), A taunts B.

Penalize B 15 yards to the 45 where it becomes 1st and 10.

Penalize A 15 yards back to the 30. It is 1st and 10 at the same place where it was 2nd and 14 just a few seconds ago.

Both were penalized 15 for the same infraction, yet A was rewarded with a first down.

Had that once - while I was enforcing it all, I told the B coach that he was going to have questions about what was happening and I would be right over to explain it as soon as I was done. I explained the rule - he didn't understand why A was rewarded for doing the same thing his team was penalized for. My best explanation? "Coach, I know, and I agree it doesn't seem to make sense. I just did a presentation on this rule at a clinic last week, so I know I got it right." That satisfied him.

[Adam]

Disagree. A was not rewarded for taunting. A was rewarded for B's taunt. B was then rewarded, separately, for A's taunt. If A's taunt had come after the first flag was marked off, he wouldn't have thought twice about it.

They were both punished separately.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by wisref2

Imagine (as we always end up doing).....

A is tackled at the 30 to make it 2nd and 14. B taunts A. Several second later (obviously not at the same time), A taunts B.

Penalize B 15 yards to the 45 where it becomes 1st and 10.

Penalize A 15 yards back to the 30. It is 1st and 10 at the same place where it was 2nd and 14 just a few seconds ago.

Both were penalized 15 for the same infraction, yet A was rewarded with a first down.

Don't know what happened exactly in this instance, but if something like this were to happen in my game, I think I would lean toward calling this simultaneous if at all possible. (Or, be unable to discern which one came first. ) However, if these fouls CLEARLY happened one, then the other ... then it is what it is.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by wisref2

One of the rules I think needs changing. You consider any deadball fouls by B for achieving the line to gain, but not those by A.

Not true. Let's change the play.

A4/10 @ 50.

A21 runs to the B41 where he is tackled. During his run, B21 taunts an A player before being tackled. USC against B21 during a live ball.

A is short of the 1st down, ball is awarded B, 15 yard penalty is assessed. 1st & 10 at the B26 for B.

There's the equity you're looking for.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by ChickenOfNC

A4/10 @ 50.

A21 runs to the B30 where he is tackled. During his run, A21 taunts a B player before being tackled. UC against A21 during a live ball.

I've got A 1/10 @ B45.

Agree/disagree?

CANADIAN RULING:

10 yards applied from end of play. Team A 1D/10 @ B-40.