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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 08, 2012, 06:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.OH View Post
It's not a foul unless the defense jumps into the NZ. If they do not jump its just a shift.

Let's look at an example:
A 3 down/4 yards. They snap down hard but they do not draw the defense.
Flag thrown against A.
Coach demands a coach Referee conf to ask what was the penality?
R says your line snapped down.
Coach said they went from a 2 point to a 3 point stance, show me in the rule book where that is a foul. I can see if it drew the other team but all we did was shift.
R - what are you going to say to the coach now?
What are you going to tell that coach when they've been shifting all night and then suddenly in the 4th quarter, they shift, the defense jumps and you throw a flag?????

It's either a foul or it's not a foul. Whether the defense shifts has NOTHING to do with it.

And BTW, I would never tell a coach, "We're going to be calling ___________ tonight." That's just plain dumb.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 09, 2012, 07:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.OH View Post
R - what are you going to say to the coach now?
I guess I could just quote the case book:

From 7.1.7 Sit A
"These are acts interpreted to cause an opponent to encroach and, therefore, are infractions. It is the intent of the rules to prohibit such acts. Whether or not the action by A1 draws B into the neutral zone should not be the determining factor in ruling a false-start foul."

or,

7.1.7 Sit B
"This could be ruled a false start if the covering official(s) determine that it was designed to cause B to encroach. In judging the offensive team's intent, the game officials should consider whether players move to a new position, the speed and abruptness of movement, down and distance and if any player pretends to have the ball or otherwise simulate action at the snap with the start of a play."

The rule is pretty clear:


7-1-7 After the ball is marked ready for play and before the snap begins, no false start shall be made by any A player. It is a false start if:
a. A shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.
b. Any act is clearly intended to cause B to encroach.

c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of his line, after having placed a hand(s) on or near the ground, moves his hand(s) or makes any quick movement.
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Last edited by waltjp; Tue Oct 09, 2012 at 07:55am.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 09, 2012, 08:59am
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I have already flagged this in 3 or our varsity games this season. Last game the coach told me they haven't been flagged for that in 5 years. I calmly responded, "Coach, I am not going to apologize for knowing the rules!" "Coach, it is rule 7-1-7 A & B if you want to look it up."
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 09, 2012, 09:14am
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We had a game where when the opposing team got ready to PAT the slapped their thighs. The white hat comes over to our head coach and says, "Coach, if you guys jump I am going to flag them for false start when they do that."

I just looked at him a said, "You don't really understand that ruling at all, do you?"

I told him where to find it and told them it was FS whether we jumped or not. He said you are right but I am not going to call it unless the defense jumps.

After the game we talked and he agreed 100% that I was right but it didn't change the way he called it that night or how he will call it in the future.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 09, 2012, 11:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
We had a game where when the opposing team got ready to PAT the slapped their thighs. The white hat comes over to our head coach and says, "Coach, if you guys jump I am going to flag them for false start when they do that."

I just looked at him a said, "You don't really understand that ruling at all, do you?"

I told him where to find it and told them it was FS whether we jumped or not. He said you are right but I am not going to call it unless the defense jumps.

After the game we talked and he agreed 100% that I was right but it didn't change the way he called it that night or how he will call it in the future.
Officials that don't know the rules bug me somewhat, although at least they can be shown the rule and retrained, and they generally are trying to do what they think is right, even if they don't know what that is.

But officials that KNOW the rules and choose to intentionally rule differently bug the everloving crap out of me.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 09, 2012, 05:27pm
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NFL started with the same language as NCAA on this, but NFL has an approved ruling that says in some cases a ruling of false start does depend on whether the opposing team is drawn offside.

If an official is unsure whether a movement by team A tended to cause team B to encroach, why couldn't the official take the fact of encroachment as evidence to help determine that?
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